My concern with "mass selling" is that it requires "mass investement".
Not so long ago I was working at a place where we made the SoCs for smart phones.
They all include stuff like multimedia cores for audio and video... audio bit rates up to 24/192 Khz, video to 4K (that was then), etc...
Now, to make that.. well, one of our full sized emulators, a Cadence Palladium, ran $1M, plus installation and incredibly expensive run time.
We had 12 of them at our disposal.
Than you got the cost of taping it out somewhere to a fab - we sent our chips to Taiwan.
Our company's burn rate, on a yearly basis, was $2B for our division.
That was ten years ago.
If you were to build something simpler, you'd still need to make it all software based as this is the future, and you'd still need some serious investments on your R&D. Obviously you could offshore your manufacturing -just beware of IP theft.
I guess the likes of Schiit are making a go out of it ( recently I bought a DAC for my daughter and a surround Syn for my office ) and they seem to be doing their hardware rather well.
But true High End.... it might be doable there... just make a few boutique items, give some to some reviewers and change six figures for audio jewelry...
But Mass Market audio.... hmm... if you could ride the nostalgia wave and build something that looks like a Marantz 2220B and charge 800 bucks for it... maybe...
Sure, it might still be possible, but you'll have to find a niche to carve out for your product(s). By now pretty much everything has been done already and it's almost impossible to compete against the cheap one-chip amplifiers, cheap speakers and other equipment that floods the market from China and deliver surprisingly decent performance for the money, often even "punching above their weight".
The second point of competition are the (semi) DIY products, that offer good quality for money and are also often hard to beat.
That being said, the first thing to do in my opinion if you still want to follow your dream, is to carefully draft a business plan: what are your strengths, what product do you feel has the most success of succeeding and what is the market for that product. Remember that you can produce a very good product, but if it doesn't sell because it's too expensive or has no qualities that make it stand out from the rest, your company simply won't make it. High-end is a cutthroat market and the profit margins are often razor-thin, especially when you're still trying to make a name for yourself.
Awesome stuff, actually.
It's like my Nuforce STA200 amp.
It was an offshoot from the Job amps.
One of the best amps you've never heard of, or seen. Nuforce was known for its class D amps, and its customers had no clue about an AB amp, or the Job Company. And Goldmund customers had no interest in buying the electronics without the bling.
I'll keep checking on that web site.
BTW, it's not a virus. I'm using Chrome, with all kinds of filters, and the site load fine. Just don't use any of those Google/Microsoft/FB applications...
I thought Nuforce was fairly well known. Certainly highly thought of by UK Hifi World back when they had a magazine.
The only way you're going to be successful starting an audio brand in 2024/2025 is to either become a race to zero manupackager with putting your label on stuff from Alibaba, or you're going to have to get good at the audiophool snake oil marketing with some passion rich origin story or something.
Even if you develop a new technology and find a product niche, you are competing with the reputation of brands that have been in that niche for decades already, and there is a very small percentage of audiophiles that are even willing to try new equipment out, let alone pay more than aliexpress prices if they do.
Even if you develop a new technology and find a product niche, you are competing with the reputation of brands that have been in that niche for decades already, and there is a very small percentage of audiophiles that are even willing to try new equipment out, let alone pay more than aliexpress prices if they do.
I tried this more than 30 years ago, and after 13 years of fighting an untenable battle just threw in the towel and decided to let someone else pay me for whatever work they wanted me to do. After a few missteps I've done OK. These days I help design and manage in the non-audio part of consumer electronics/small home appliances industries - it pays a whole lot better and is a lot more secure.
I still do some audio design but mostly for my own entertainment. Great hobby, terrible business, and the customers and distributors for the most part suck.
Last edited:
Nuforce was very well known, but not for their class AB bipolar amps.
https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/optoma-nuforce-sta200-power-amplifier/
So they didn't sell all that well.
BTW, I got mine on a close out sale from Audio Advisor for 400 bucks... I should have bought two!
Peter Belt used to do quite well with his treatments... he could even deliver them by phone to you...
Then you got the Tice Clock and the MPingo Discs... but those required some manufacturing and distribution.
I've always wondered about the Tice Clock. Did its sound change when you moved from Daylight Savings to Standard Time, and back? After a careful analysis and significant in depth thought on the matter, I would figure that it would have to take 3 weeks and 2 days under 120VAC and 1 week 4 days and 7 hours under 240VAC for the clock to stabilize its acoustic harmonization.
Perhaps the best way to get into audio is just to start a newsletter or web site..... I do miss the old days, though..
https://pwbelectronics.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/The_PWB_Spring_Newsletter_2011.pdf
Ah, the George Tice clock, as I recall someone figured out it was a rebadged version of a digital clock Radio Shack was also selling at the time. Didn't we all have one? Once it proved as expected to be fairy dust and pixie poop it still had utility as a device to awake you to the daily drudgery. 🤣
Maybe it would help this terrible sounding Andreas Vo recording I am trying to listen to.. 😈 😈
Maybe it would help this terrible sounding Andreas Vo recording I am trying to listen to.. 😈 😈
Ahh, of course...I thought you meant their Class D. I thought that was a bit strange as they were well known for that! I remember the bronze/orangey colour of the test unit very well.
The key to marketing anything, not just audio gear, is to differentiate your products and brand from the others already in the marketplace.
So, the question for you, Hi-Fi Enthusiast, is have you done that. Can you clearly and strongly point out how your new product is different and better than what is already out there. If so, you have a chance for success.
So, the question for you, Hi-Fi Enthusiast, is have you done that. Can you clearly and strongly point out how your new product is different and better than what is already out there. If so, you have a chance for success.
A plain grey rectangular box with no distinguishing features. Gee, I wonder why they didn't sell. 😉
jeff
Even if your product is new and different, it still faces an uphill battle to get past the "that's just how we've always done it" mindset. Many hifi people are stuck in the 70's and 80's and do not like new technology. Look at how long it has taken for hifi enthusiasts to finally start warming up to class D amps.
I developed a new design of high excursion small sealed low distortion shallow hifi subwoofers, and had people on this forum go to great lengths to try and tell me how it was impossible for that to work and some even calling my subs "mud pumps" literally at the same time as it was on display at cedia getting good attention. You will never break into the hifi world with any new technology; the only thing that interests people is old 70's and 80's technology with a modern cosmetic wrapper around it. I bet if some old hifi company launched a new line of Alnico drivers, hifi guys would be going crazy over them.
That's a common misconception. A business plan based on high differentiation and charging a premium is only one type of business plan. On the contrary, a business plan where you are not differentiated at all and just keeping yourself as efficient or better than your competition and pocket the same markup as they do is perfectly valid.
Anyways, I doubt any of the long time members here will recommend going ahead.
I don't agree with you that product and brand differentiation is a common misconception. Nor was I suggesting that a high differentiation and charging a premium was necessary.
But some type of differentiation is necessary if you want to enter an established and and crowded market, which is exactly what the audio market is.
That differentiation can take many different forms. It could be in terms of something as simple as product styling. Or some unique set of features not offered by most of the existing competition.
However, another "me too" product has a limited future in an existing crowded market.
But some type of differentiation is necessary if you want to enter an established and and crowded market, which is exactly what the audio market is.
That differentiation can take many different forms. It could be in terms of something as simple as product styling. Or some unique set of features not offered by most of the existing competition.
However, another "me too" product has a limited future in an existing crowded market.
Why the **** would you just dig your hole deeper? I understand this material. Why are you even in this thread, there's no conspiracy involved?
I didn't realize that there were certain rules or criteria regarding who could respond to a specific thread.
Perhaps you can explain them to me, so I don't intrude in the wrong place in the future.
In the meantime, you might benefit by reading this article on product differentiation or some others like it:
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/product_differentiation.asp
Perhaps you can explain them to me, so I don't intrude in the wrong place in the future.
In the meantime, you might benefit by reading this article on product differentiation or some others like it:
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/product_differentiation.asp
Last edited:
Obviously, there are some strong and possibly conflicting opinions here, and most of them are negative. One thing that has not been mentioned, and it is very close to the No Politics rule, but one MUST consider the economic environment that you are going to launch into.
Nobody NEEDS a fancy HiFi setup, especially a pricey one. Everybody DOES need shelter, clothing, food, transportation, and all of the basic requirements for being able to relax in front of a pair of speakers or slap some nice headphones on your head. Most of us, and most of your perspective customers should have ample discretionary income with which we can purchase our toys. Like it or not sales in the HiFi market are strongly tied to the global and local economy. I have been sending PC boards all over the world on a small scale for 18 years. International sales strongly track the strength (or weakness) of the US dollar VS the currency in the purchasing country, and general sales tend to track world economic conditions with a strong US bias since that is my biggest market.
Nearly 4 years ago things changed, and sales started down a long slow downturn with a hard crash in this year. I had been averaging about 165 boards a year except in 2007 which was the first year with a mid year start at 50 boards. The best year was 2020 with 210 boards. This year will be the second worst year with 65 boards sold so far and ZERO orders since mid November. Maybe things will get better in 2025, but if they don't it will be the last year for Tubelab Inc.
Your business model must be prepared for economic uncertainty since it is inevitable.
Nobody NEEDS a fancy HiFi setup, especially a pricey one. Everybody DOES need shelter, clothing, food, transportation, and all of the basic requirements for being able to relax in front of a pair of speakers or slap some nice headphones on your head. Most of us, and most of your perspective customers should have ample discretionary income with which we can purchase our toys. Like it or not sales in the HiFi market are strongly tied to the global and local economy. I have been sending PC boards all over the world on a small scale for 18 years. International sales strongly track the strength (or weakness) of the US dollar VS the currency in the purchasing country, and general sales tend to track world economic conditions with a strong US bias since that is my biggest market.
Nearly 4 years ago things changed, and sales started down a long slow downturn with a hard crash in this year. I had been averaging about 165 boards a year except in 2007 which was the first year with a mid year start at 50 boards. The best year was 2020 with 210 boards. This year will be the second worst year with 65 boards sold so far and ZERO orders since mid November. Maybe things will get better in 2025, but if they don't it will be the last year for Tubelab Inc.
Your business model must be prepared for economic uncertainty since it is inevitable.