Well, well, someone with a strong belief and willing to share with everybody his wisdom that we should all share, whether we want it or not.
Yeah.
Putting your hands on your ears and shouting nah-nah-nah while others are trying to talk options is probably not the best attitude on a site called "diy" audio.
We like to keep an open mind to things.
Each driver is a compromise somewhere.
Having built and listened to with the SB65, that is a small wide ranger that behaves almost like a tweeter with its reach and dispersion. But of course, for the size, it won't produce much bass. Assisted with a good woofer for the lower end, it is a killer setup with no XO in the very sensitive 1~3kHz region.
Yeah.
Putting your hands on your ears and shouting nah-nah-nah while others are trying to talk options is probably not the best attitude on a site called "diy" audio.
We like to keep an open mind to things.
Each driver is a compromise somewhere.
Having built and listened to with the SB65, that is a small wide ranger that behaves almost like a tweeter with its reach and dispersion. But of course, for the size, it won't produce much bass. Assisted with a good woofer for the lower end, it is a killer setup with no XO in the very sensitive 1~3kHz region.
But suggesting he buy more (2 drivers + XO parts insyead one) is not saving him money. What would you do for $43 USD?
The 19mm dust caps give these dispersion similar to a 1” dome, and no XO right where we are most sensitive. Usually crews up the timeresponse, and 2 drivers in disparate locations does not help
People’s use FR drivers has exploded in the lasgt 2+ decades. For a reason.
dave
The 19mm dust caps give these dispersion similar to a 1” dome, and no XO right where we are most sensitive. Usually crews up the timeresponse, and 2 drivers in disparate locations does not help
People’s use FR drivers has exploded in the lasgt 2+ decades. For a reason.
dave
The OP wants suggestion of drivers from 2.5" to 4".
None of them will give meaningful bass. There are 4" in a MLTL will be enough bass for some people, but for more serious listening, a woofer assisted small wide ranger is the best.
Also, even with a WR, you still need to buy components for a baffle step circuit, which most WR need, often having a rising response, and components for a notch or two and a Zobel if needed.
You can't just say that a WR is just shove it in a box, plug the amp and listen to great music. There not any drivers in the world you can do that, if you want to listen to balanced sound. If one doesn't mind some screeching rise or peaks along the response, calling it "character" (ha ha!) then sure... go ahead and plug any driver and ... well, I don't know ... but it won't be great music listening.
None of them will give meaningful bass. There are 4" in a MLTL will be enough bass for some people, but for more serious listening, a woofer assisted small wide ranger is the best.
Also, even with a WR, you still need to buy components for a baffle step circuit, which most WR need, often having a rising response, and components for a notch or two and a Zobel if needed.
You can't just say that a WR is just shove it in a box, plug the amp and listen to great music. There not any drivers in the world you can do that, if you want to listen to balanced sound. If one doesn't mind some screeching rise or peaks along the response, calling it "character" (ha ha!) then sure... go ahead and plug any driver and ... well, I don't know ... but it won't be great music listening.
No correction cicuits on any ofg our 100s of builds. Well except for 1 with $20/pr drivers. I will tweak drivers to tame issues.
I am also of the beilief that a WAW is a very worthy approach. Add helper woofers, to get as much bass as you want (and can afford), relieve the wideband of the heavy lifting, and move the XOndown to where the ear is less sensitive to them, and where you can get the drivers within a quarter wavelength apart at the XO frequency (ie essentially coincident).
But budget. Adding woofers adds significantly more to the budget. An essential input intothe compromises you have to make when making a loudspeaker.
dave
I am also of the beilief that a WAW is a very worthy approach. Add helper woofers, to get as much bass as you want (and can afford), relieve the wideband of the heavy lifting, and move the XOndown to where the ear is less sensitive to them, and where you can get the drivers within a quarter wavelength apart at the XO frequency (ie essentially coincident).
But budget. Adding woofers adds significantly more to the budget. An essential input intothe compromises you have to make when making a loudspeaker.
dave
The price/performance ratio of very very cheap drivers depends on the location you are (France?) and the pricing/postage you can get from your suppliers. In my case I have got really cheap FaitalPro, Visaton drivers, others were a bit more expensive to get into my place. For example Daytons are very expensive until they reach my place. From the requirements more or less 2/3 of available can be suitable for you, so we need to hear more preferences.
My blind bet would be, that those cheapos + some subwoofers would play pretty well. On the different side of the Qts range.
https://en.toutlehautparleur.com/sp...peerless-tc5fb00-04-4-ohm-1-6-x-1-6-inch.html
https://en.toutlehautparleur.com/sp...e-speaker-vifa-tc5fc07-04-4-ohm-1-5-inch.html
having tried WR like the maop 10.2 j I can say that speakers can reproduce the entire range without correction.
my pair of sb20 even if it is not as good as the maop 10.2 is excellent. specialists would say that some correction is needed, yet when listening it is much better than very elaborate multi-way speakers.
Many multi-way speakers have their faults or characteristics just like WRs.
the addition of a subwoofer is necessary for listening to current music but this is also the case for 2-way speakers in general. only the coherence of the instruments, the image I have never been able to find them in a multi-way speaker . and yet 2 years ago I would have sworn that you can only do good work with several ways
I don't claim to be right about everything I just had this experience
my pair of sb20 even if it is not as good as the maop 10.2 is excellent. specialists would say that some correction is needed, yet when listening it is much better than very elaborate multi-way speakers.
Many multi-way speakers have their faults or characteristics just like WRs.
the addition of a subwoofer is necessary for listening to current music but this is also the case for 2-way speakers in general. only the coherence of the instruments, the image I have never been able to find them in a multi-way speaker . and yet 2 years ago I would have sworn that you can only do good work with several ways
I don't claim to be right about everything I just had this experience
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10-15dB difference from ~200Hz until 15kHz, that is absolutely not very good. Haven't listened to them, but those spikes are never good in any speaker. And those measurements are according to manufacturer, usually they are even worse.
Other MarkAudio mesured:
https://hificompass.com/en/speakers/measurements/markaudio/markaudio-alpair-10p
https://hificompass.com/en/speakers/measurements/markaudio/markaudio-alpair-10m
There are many more, you can find them.
And they are NOT cheap...
Measurements never lie.
Here are some of the more interesting yet affordable ones:
https://hificompass.com/en/speakers/measurements/fountek/fountek-fr89ex-4
https://hificompass.com/en/speakers/measurements/peerless/peerless-tc9fd18-08
2-3dB sharp spikes can be heard with untrained ear, and 1-2dB "hills". Dips and "walleys" are harder, but still you can say that smth is very wrong with sound. Speaker with 5+-dB variations is close to unlistenable. I am a beginner, but I can easily design, sim and build (if have crossover parts at hand) 2-way in a week from scratch that is more flat than typical MarkAudio driver.
Fullrange has its purpose, but much more drawbacks. One of its advantages is relative cheapness and simplicity for diy. Also listening from small distances, like 50cm-1m. With subwoofer you are masking another drawback. I like those advantages, but expensive alpairs are kinda missing that purpose.
2 or 15 litters ? QUITE DIFFERENT don't you think ?
For "onken" ask planet10(Dave) and perceval
For "waw" ask Xrk.
In my opinion - if you want something "fancy" - try TABAQ with 3" Tangband (there is a thread https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/tabaq-tl-for-tangband.88787/ ). Otherwise install on them TG9FD00-08 (very price affordable - I have them and they sound DECENT).
However, if it's an office, right now I'm listening to a pair of
TC7FD00-04
in sealed speakers about 1,2 litters and I'm driving them with an LM1875 (+20V -20V) (ask prasi about the last) and they fill up the room (~25 sqm) nicely .Elias
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Yes, currently A7.3eN with a pairof A12pWeN, will switch over to MAOP 7 with a pair of SDX7eN once i sort the XO.
dave
Yes, it may be true. Do you have MA drivers measurements at different angles?
Still typical living rooms have reflections - sound does not simply disappear and the best way is not to have those spikes at all. Also you are most likely at least to move head when listening or just walk around.
if we are only talking about acoustic quality and the speaker will be completed by a subwoofer, if I have forgotten the model that I should consider do not hesitate
in your opinion CHN50P mica > CHP-90 > SB65 > Fountek FR89EX-4
in your opinion CHN50P mica > CHP-90 > SB65 > Fountek FR89EX-4
Probably going to look something like this:
It will exactly NOT look like this.
The graph from NEGATIVE 10 to 110dB. On 120dB scale this still looks... ... ... not even, if I am being polite.
Here I will post the some graph in -10 to 80db and in something reasonable. So only 90dB scale/ With 1/24th per octave smoothing.
And here is the comparison on the same scale as if I post in MA methodics:
This is my project of 2-way. And I am almost a complete noob, just starting to scratch surface on diyaudio. In reality 100EUR per speaker 2-way is possible to build even more even.
EDIT: and that ~11kHz peak on my project drives my nuts! It is still a single big "artefact", but I can hear it. On MA graph there are 5-10 or even more such artefacts, and you have to have some non-acoustic reasons not to hear them.
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Well, until someone measures the drivers off axis, we'll never know will we?
jeff
jeff