@
Nothing stays the same and expectations that it does may be keeping you from enjoying a happy life vs a grumpy life. Don't look back.
Let it go, adopt one of the many suggestions others have posted, relax and treat your beloved to another chicken that ticks all the boxes for you.
Best regards,
Bob
classicalfan
This has garnered so much blather for an essentially 1st-world problem.Nothing stays the same and expectations that it does may be keeping you from enjoying a happy life vs a grumpy life. Don't look back.
Let it go, adopt one of the many suggestions others have posted, relax and treat your beloved to another chicken that ticks all the boxes for you.
Best regards,
Bob
Sorry, but I'm not buying your explanation at all. Yours doesn't make any sense.Sure it does...
If <X% of the previous material was ACTUALLY being recycled vs. it being "recyclable", and far less raw material is used in the new configuration, then it makes perfect sense. The reasoning was explained. Save material, freight etc. which net-net may have less environmental impact.
You may not agree with the reasoning and/or your personal tradeoffs don't align with the decision due to performance, but to say it doesn't make sense... well... that doesn't make sense.
🙂
I believe that most people have been, in fact, recycling the plastic chicken containers all along. One of our trash cans is clearly marked “Plastics’ and that’s where the chicken boxes go. Those plastics then get recycled.
The other trash can is marked “Plastic Bags” and that is where the new chicken bags have to be put. And then they end up in the landfill, which is the worst place possible.
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I have no intention of letting it go. I started this thread to raise a very valid complaint. And apparently from media reports many other people share that complaint with me.
The point is Costco has done something that they want everyone to believe helps the environment, when in fact just the opposite is taking place.
If you are not interested in the subject than just don't bother reading this thread.
P.S. I am relaxed.
If you have a "very valid complaint" why are you not addressing it in a Costco Forum ? Why a Diy Audio forum ?
"If you are not interested in the subject than just don't bother reading this thread."
I'll read whatever I like, thank-you!
If you are not interested in my comments then don't reply.
Regards,
Bob
"If you are not interested in the subject than just don't bother reading this thread."
I'll read whatever I like, thank-you!
If you are not interested in my comments then don't reply.
Regards,
Bob
I agree with you re: it not being ideal.
However, I think understand where the confusion lies. You are under the impression that once the plastic goes into the recycling bin that it's automatically recycled all across the USA. That's simply not true. It may be true in your area, but it's certainly not true in mine and many other places. I can't even begin to speculate what percentage of containers either made it into the bins and then of those that made it into the bins, how many actually made it into a recycled content resin / product. Some estimates put it at 50% for PET and HDPE.
REDUCE, reuse, recycle. Recycle is last for a reason.
Again, you may not agree with what's been done, but the reasoning is clear. Heck, even if the motive was purely profit, and the materials and carbon emissions reductions are all lies, it still makes sense. You just don't like it, which is perfectly fine. You get no argument from me if you just say the new bags are the worst. Saying the reason for the change doesn't make sense... well... I suppose if they go back to the clamshells ... we'll know it ultimately didn't make sense.
The 'actual' reasoning could be: This stuff is way cheaper, but here's some fluff around environmental impact that makes you feel good.
Reasoning you don't agree with, may still be sound reasoning.
From the POV of considering that they thought it through and aren't out to make matters worse...
There is conflicting data re: how much plastic that actually goes to the recycler finds it's way into a new product, and it varies vastly by geography. I helped create one of the first PET textile fibers from 100% post-consumer waste (PET bottles) and worked on some of the first PET resins to contain post-consumer waste for major bottlers and food packaging companies. It's a field near and dear to my heart. All those products cost far more than products using virgin material. Look up EcoClear and/or EcoTex. I think they were great products. We partnered with Malden Mills (Polartek) on the fiber and a few carpet manufacturers. We partnered with major bottlers on the resin. At one point, we were the world's largest post-consumer PET recycler. I haven't worked in that field since 2005 though.
Then, you have the situation where the materials that could be re-extruded or re-blown are simply used as filler or "regrind" in industrial resins, which generally just delays the inevitable. However, it does prevent some virgin material from being used, which ain't all bad.
Recycling is a commercial business in the USA. When it's cheaper to make and process virgin material... which is often the case, that's generally what's done. The pressure to use post-consumer recyclables and actually recycle... comes from we, the consumers, in the USA. I'm not saying there should be legislation mandating recycling, that would be a nightmare, but companies and consumers speak through the transfer of $$.
Anyway... that's a really long way of getting around to "It's not a simple as it may seem". I think it's fantastic that you push for recycling.
PS - We didn't make our Costco run from the airport last night. Delays got us in after close. I'll be curious to see if our Costco has made the switch.
ItsAllInMyHead,
Thanks for that very thorough explanation of your actual experience with the recycling process. And I accept that you are probably right about some of the material not actually get recycled at all. But I don't see that as a reason to change my mind. I can't fix the industry and if they don't do exactly what they are supposed to do then it's up to the government body who mandates that we recycle to fix it.
We are sticking with our plan to boycott Costco chickens unless they go back to the plastic container package. Or anything else that doesn't result in the awful mess that the current packaging brings.
And again, to my point. The previous recyclable containers are, in fact, more friendly to the environment than the new plastic bags. So, what Costco has done is actually taken a step backwards for anyone concerned with the environment. They, Costco, have sold it to the public to be exactly the opposite of what it really is.
Thanks for that very thorough explanation of your actual experience with the recycling process. And I accept that you are probably right about some of the material not actually get recycled at all. But I don't see that as a reason to change my mind. I can't fix the industry and if they don't do exactly what they are supposed to do then it's up to the government body who mandates that we recycle to fix it.
We are sticking with our plan to boycott Costco chickens unless they go back to the plastic container package. Or anything else that doesn't result in the awful mess that the current packaging brings.
And again, to my point. The previous recyclable containers are, in fact, more friendly to the environment than the new plastic bags. So, what Costco has done is actually taken a step backwards for anyone concerned with the environment. They, Costco, have sold it to the public to be exactly the opposite of what it really is.
@classicalfan, with the greatest respect and all that, you are wrong.
NONE of the packaging of your wretched hot chicken is practically recyclable!
The old trays and lids have to be heat-resistant and are usually polypropylene PP Type 5. Like your plastic washing-up bowl and garden chairs and microwave trays.
The bags are likely soft polypropylene film too. Both fine for the incinerator being fairly pure hydrocarbons, but uneconomic for recycling.
I have studied this more than I really want to, but it really seems that Type 1 PET and Type 2 HDPE plastic bottles are the only stuff that is easily dealt with.
Along with aluminium cans, steel cans and, preferably, high grade long-fibre card and paper. Which is EXACTLY what Portsmouth UK wants in green bins!
This notice is put on non-compliant bins when rejected.
Most efforts to solve the problem of supermarket plastic waste have totally failed so far:
https://www.corpcommsmagazine.co.uk/2020/03/the-plastic-problem/
Even reuseable plastic bag initiatives! It's truly hopeless. Most people who know say that the only real solution is to stop making the darned stuff!
No more hot supermarket chicken for you! Cook it yourself! 🤣
NONE of the packaging of your wretched hot chicken is practically recyclable!
The old trays and lids have to be heat-resistant and are usually polypropylene PP Type 5. Like your plastic washing-up bowl and garden chairs and microwave trays.
The bags are likely soft polypropylene film too. Both fine for the incinerator being fairly pure hydrocarbons, but uneconomic for recycling.
I have studied this more than I really want to, but it really seems that Type 1 PET and Type 2 HDPE plastic bottles are the only stuff that is easily dealt with.
Along with aluminium cans, steel cans and, preferably, high grade long-fibre card and paper. Which is EXACTLY what Portsmouth UK wants in green bins!
This notice is put on non-compliant bins when rejected.
Most efforts to solve the problem of supermarket plastic waste have totally failed so far:
https://www.corpcommsmagazine.co.uk/2020/03/the-plastic-problem/
Even reuseable plastic bag initiatives! It's truly hopeless. Most people who know say that the only real solution is to stop making the darned stuff!
No more hot supermarket chicken for you! Cook it yourself! 🤣
Exactly this. Not going to be easy though and sometimes it's counterintuitive where and how energy/waste is best conserved.
Some years back a university in the UK looked at the co2 footprint of NZ lamb compared with that reared in the UK. It turned out that the NZ lamb had a smaller footprint because of economies of scale...
There was a short lived campaign in the UK to get rid of the plastic wrapping on cucumbers. Then it was pointed out it's there because it significantly increases the shelf life & therefore reducing food waste.
On a lighter note, I read somewhere that Dr Johnson (I think) said you should slice cucumber thinly, dress with a little vinegar and season with salt and pepper. Then throw it away because it's worth nothing...
It can, but not if it's contaminated by food and I think it's too much like hard work sorting the foil so they just don't accept it.
System 7,
There seems to be a major discrepancy between what you are permitted to recycle and what we can do here.
Black meal trays are not banned by our local disposal company. Nor have I read anywhere that Costco stopped using them due to any local bans.
So, I'm not wrong, and in fact I'm advocating for using something that is recyclable instead of the new plastic bags, which are not.
I appreciate that of all things Costco chicken packaging may get more people to discuss what actually happens to the materials they put in their recycle bin in their country, state, city, municipality, etc.
re: fixing the industry. It's a slog ... one... step... at... a... time...
Legislation is (IMO) the least efficient way to create change, and unintended (if I turn off the cynical side of my brain) consequences are inevitable. However, we've (the collective 'we' as a society) shown that we simply won't do the "right" thing on our own. So, I'm torn. Yeah, I know that's a bit sappy, but ...
Heading to Costco in a few hours. I don't know whether I want to see the new bags or the clamshells. The inner torment is giving me heartburn. (j/k) 🙂
It's like footpaths. People like straight lines, if you make a curved path in a park and people use it to get from a to b, they'll cut across the loops...
The answer is to make recycling as easy as possible. If that means levying charges on packaging that reflects the difficulty of disposal that seems reasonable. But not popular...
The complaint related to which topic?
I carefully read your initial post and found that 85% of the text is related to the inconvenience of the bag compared to the box and 15% to the ecological choice.
However, it is not unusual for an eco-friendly choice to require some effort on the part of the end user.
In my opinion one may not have enough elements available to be able to make this judgment.
The issue is complex, it is not just "plastic", to find the right balance in weights, sometimes one has to move an element from one side to place it on another side.
Also to consider is the reduction in volumes, weights, fuel consumed for transport, tire wear, the release of microparticles from brake friction compounds, etc.
The overall balance could be even in favor of using the bag rather than the plastic tray.
For the Planet, not for its convenience.
One lonely clamshell. Tried the bag. Made it home without chicken drippings escaping, so... that's nice.
Swapped it straight into a re-usable container. I agree with you that sectioning it out / cutting it was MUCH easier in the clamshell.
Sadly... bag... in the waste bin and off to the landfill tomorrow.
