Hello DIY dudes and dudettes. I found this forum a few months ago from the guys at AudioKarma, as I'm a member there too. I thought I'd share a little project with you guys and maybe you will find it useful yourself. I got back into spinning vinyl about 2 years ago. All this digital stuff nowadays just seemed to lose the magic of music for me. It was all about better DAC's, HD this, blue-ray that. I just wanted to get back to the music. So I picked me up a Denon DP-62L turntable and a Denon DL-160 MC cart, pulled out all my stored vinyl, and began the ritual of what music is all about - the preparation of the component and the source, the settings that must be made, the maintenance, the cleaning, the angles. Yes, that is what I missed! That is somrthing you can't get from the comatose inducing effects of single pushbutton, remote controlled digital clones. Anyway, as time went by I searched the net for tweaks that I could do to make my ritual a better hands-on experience (hence, I found this forum). One of the biggest tweaks anyone can make is not upgrading the cart, or the tuntable, or even adding an isolation platform (all of these are valid tweaks by themselves), but the best thing you can do to give you better sound from your LP's is --------- to clean them!! A clean record will sound drastically better, and last longer, than a dirty record. The search began for as much information on record cleaners. Nitty Gritty, VPI, Moth - all too expensive. I found Gales page and saw his design for a cool VPI DIY clone and became inspired.
I built my version - the ARK (Automatic Record Kleaner). Catchy, isin't it? It turned out to be one of the best performing and most satisfying projects I've done. It consists of a high torque motor to turn the platter, a 10 amp vacuum cleaner for the suction, a car's windshield wiper pump for the fluid dispenser system, and housed in a box. I'll admit the looks could be improved upon, but this was my first test run only and not the final product - a prototype. So I know that many of us DIYer's would love to build one of these but can't choose a design, much less impliment it. I hope my little project will help you DIYer's to make your own. Total parts cost was less than $60.00 for the fnal version - most parts available at home in your garage. A more detailed step by step description of the whole process can be seen at my website for those interested: www.rycher.net
I built my version - the ARK (Automatic Record Kleaner). Catchy, isin't it? It turned out to be one of the best performing and most satisfying projects I've done. It consists of a high torque motor to turn the platter, a 10 amp vacuum cleaner for the suction, a car's windshield wiper pump for the fluid dispenser system, and housed in a box. I'll admit the looks could be improved upon, but this was my first test run only and not the final product - a prototype. So I know that many of us DIYer's would love to build one of these but can't choose a design, much less impliment it. I hope my little project will help you DIYer's to make your own. Total parts cost was less than $60.00 for the fnal version - most parts available at home in your garage. A more detailed step by step description of the whole process can be seen at my website for those interested: www.rycher.net
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An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Wow! Looks pretty good. The high torque ice cream machine motor is a great idea (that I may have to steal).
What fluid do you use with it?
Have you experimented with different "scrubbers"?
I am in the process of gathering parts to build a Loricraftish RCM. I have a Nitty Gritty, but it is too loud for the bathroom whhere it sits. Won't do any good to clean records if my RCM makes me deaf 😉
Cody
What fluid do you use with it?
Have you experimented with different "scrubbers"?
I am in the process of gathering parts to build a Loricraftish RCM. I have a Nitty Gritty, but it is too loud for the bathroom whhere it sits. Won't do any good to clean records if my RCM makes me deaf 😉
Cody
Thanks Reverber. The motor took the longest to think out because I knew that a standard TT motor would not hold under the the pressure of scrubbing and vacuuming. But the ice cream/ ice crusher is perfect. It does'nt even bog down. Lucked out on that one. As for the scrubber, well I think I may have to "upgrade" the present one for a brush type so that it can penetrate deeper into the grooves. Most good 4" paint brushes from Home Depot should do the trick without being damaging on the vinyl. I made it so that I can interchange brushes fairly easily. As for the cleaning fluid, well I use the old tried and true home brew: 3 parts distilled water, 1 part isopropyl alcohol, and about 3 drops Dawn detergent. Works very well. Normally I would use the Stanton record cleaner pad and it's liquid - you know the type, you hold the pad on a turning record. But even after a few minutes of play the needle had collected dust on it's stylus due to it bringing it up from deep in the grooves. After cleaning a record with this machine I can go an entire play and not see any appreciable dust build up on the stylus. To me that's effective cleaning.
Well thanks for the kind words. I just thought I'm make my first post on this site a useful post. 😀
Well thanks for the kind words. I just thought I'm make my first post on this site a useful post. 😀
Very good work...
I am still enjoying *not* cleaning my CDs before listening... but for the analogue crowd here, would you consider selling these as finished parts, even at a low volume?
I am still enjoying *not* cleaning my CDs before listening... but for the analogue crowd here, would you consider selling these as finished parts, even at a low volume?
LOL! Now that's a compliment! Thanks. But really, I love working and tinkering, it keeps my mind busy. I don't really mind making a few of these units for some buddies, it's not really a big deal now that the basic idea has already been implimented. I'd like to do a few more tweaks on my machine before I build the final version. I want to fill in the suction arm so that the amount of air drawn is only as wide as the slit cut on the underside, and not all the way through the wand to the end where right now it's just capped. This should give me quite a bit more suction power. I also want to raise the scrubber arm about an inch more so that I can slide over the present arm other tubes that hold different styles scrubber pads, fiber brushes, sponges, etc, making replacement quick and easy. I also want to add a fluid regulator valve to the fluid hose so you can adjust the amount and speed of fluid going to the record. I also want to refine the fluid dispenser hose a bit more. These are all quick and easy fixes, but I feel they will add a lot to the overall design and ultimate value of the unit. I'm sure that once I fix these small things, and install my unit in a nicer rosewood box that I will have a product that will easily compete with the big boys (actually I'm pretty sure that even right now I have a superior unit than most out there). I don't know what they would be worth to someone if I were to sell them. Does anyone here want to comment on a reasonable price for sale - just for kicking the idea around?
I don't see a reservoir for the fluid you suck up from the record. Will that not damage the vacuum motor if you don't filter it out?
One isin't needed because of 2 reasons. 1) the fluid is so little that it evaporates while being picked up and traveling down the hose, and 2) the mix of 3 to 1 water/alcohol ratio evaporates much quicker. But I do have a small "water net" that sits inside the "pot" at the vacuum to catch any debris that may make it in. But both the debris and water will be so small that a cleaning every 2 or 3 months would be all that is needed. I'm currently looking at a small cylindrical vacuum that is even more powerful than this one, is smaller, and is a wet/dry system. But it retails for $50.00 by itself - that would bring the total cost of the ARK to about $120.00. Still not a bad price at all. The final version as I see it so far will have some improvements in parts and I'll be getting away from the "home brew" of parts that the cost would surely rise to the $200.00 area. Still not bad at all considering everything that this machine can do and the features that it will have (see my previous post on additions). So far I'm very happy with the performance of this prototype. You know, the more time I spend on the machine the more I realize how complicated things can get. I can make the machine very stramlined and easy or, I can add all the bells and whistles and make a unique one-of-a-kind fully loaded cadillac. Heck, maybe I can make a few different models?
Jimmy
Jimmy
That is a really excellent record cleaner. Thanks for the description – you may have saved some people a few hundred, or a few thousand, dollars! I may use some of your thoughts to modify my own Nitty Gritty machine, which I’ve already discovered a few problems with, despite paying a fair bit for it. I might have to build a similar version to yours, and sell my Nitty Gritty – luckily they fetch quite a bit second hand! I’m sure they, or the dealers selling them, are making a pretty good profit.
How does your fluid work with fingerprints? I discovered that the standard Nitty Gritty Pure 2 fluid is absolutely hopeless on getting rid of fingerprints on some of the records I buy, so I usually have to use another stronger fluid first to remove the fingerprints. Of course, Nitty Gritty have now come out with a stronger fluid….
You also have a pretty useful website – I enjoyed your review of power conditioners/protectors. I remember a colleague in my electronics industry saying that when there was lightning in the area, the best idea was to unplug all electrical equipment from power points, as lighting doesn’t respect off switches! Having seen what it can do to electronic equipment, I’d agree with that. I’ve heard some poor, misguided people complain about getting tingles from lightning when they were on a wired phone – they blamed the phone company. I think that I would have been hanging up at the first hint of lightning. I advise my friends and relatives not to use wired phones when there’s lighting in the area – better safe than dead.
How does your fluid work with fingerprints? I discovered that the standard Nitty Gritty Pure 2 fluid is absolutely hopeless on getting rid of fingerprints on some of the records I buy, so I usually have to use another stronger fluid first to remove the fingerprints. Of course, Nitty Gritty have now come out with a stronger fluid….
You also have a pretty useful website – I enjoyed your review of power conditioners/protectors. I remember a colleague in my electronics industry saying that when there was lightning in the area, the best idea was to unplug all electrical equipment from power points, as lighting doesn’t respect off switches! Having seen what it can do to electronic equipment, I’d agree with that. I’ve heard some poor, misguided people complain about getting tingles from lightning when they were on a wired phone – they blamed the phone company. I think that I would have been hanging up at the first hint of lightning. I advise my friends and relatives not to use wired phones when there’s lighting in the area – better safe than dead.
The record cleaner is complete.
Today I finished tweaking the record cleaner and added a few new features. I believe that what I have now is a unit that will give the VPI's a run for their money - easy! For startes, I filled in the vacuum wand so that the suction air is concentrated only on the slit, also I streamlined the vacuum hose taking all tight bends out. This increased suction considerably. I also added a fluid control knob to the fluid motor so that I can control the amount and speed of cleaning fluid going to the record. This is very handy. I also streamlined the fluid hose to remove any tight bends thus giving it a more pridictable flow. All in all this unit SUCKS - literally! It sprays a nice stream of cleaner on the LP, scrubs it down into the grooves gently, then vacuum the dirt, grime, finger prints, and fluid away in about 3 passes. I am mightily impressed. Here are the final pics.
Today I finished tweaking the record cleaner and added a few new features. I believe that what I have now is a unit that will give the VPI's a run for their money - easy! For startes, I filled in the vacuum wand so that the suction air is concentrated only on the slit, also I streamlined the vacuum hose taking all tight bends out. This increased suction considerably. I also added a fluid control knob to the fluid motor so that I can control the amount and speed of cleaning fluid going to the record. This is very handy. I also streamlined the fluid hose to remove any tight bends thus giving it a more pridictable flow. All in all this unit SUCKS - literally! It sprays a nice stream of cleaner on the LP, scrubs it down into the grooves gently, then vacuum the dirt, grime, finger prints, and fluid away in about 3 passes. I am mightily impressed. Here are the final pics.
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An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Yes, that is all good. Please take the following in the helpful spirit in which it is offered. Already, you can tell that we are impressed.
Constructive Criticism, aka "Suggestions/questions/comments" section:
I don't know how much your machine "sucks", but I am guessing you are careful to make it not so strong that it bends the record... 🙂
Obvious improvements that you might try to incorporate for more-final versions, mostly aesthetics:
The hose for the fluid, from the top of the chassis need it have that big loop sticking up? Possibly a shorter, right-angle hose would do. If you could incorporate the tube into the underside of the bar to which it attaches, that could hide it altogether and would give it a more "engineered" appearance. That said, I think the way the tube fits snugly against the bar and the way it fills the loops, both look nice.
Obviously, a prettier clamp would not hurt.
The box: With a top. Nice wood finish, pretty hinges, with a clasp.
If you can find a quiet motor for the vacuum source, that would be nice (obviously, a secondary concern if the one you are thinking of does not do the job quietly, but does it well, that is probably OK). Are existing commercial offerings loud? I never heard one, can't complain. It just seems to me that a loud noise before listening to music, can't help the enjoyment of the music!
Some ventilation on the bottom/back to let any moisture caught by the vaccuum to disperse
Easy access to the reservoir and filter would be very, very good ideas. I don't know how easy your current design is to service, but JIC.
A dead-sipmple method for replacing the brush-pad for the -um- less-technical user. If this takes too much effort, most folks willing to pony up for the device will likely be able/willing to cut/fit the new brush themselves
For the customer, a thorough user's manual would be nice with detailed instructions and disclaimers (the latter for you! )
A final detail that could be worked around with one of those disclaimers: make sure the main motor can run for a long time under use, to avoid overheating/warping/fire concerns.
MosfetOwner, a high alchohol content along with a little detergent, goes a Very Long Way to getting rid of fingerprints. A high quality brush will do the same.
Constructive Criticism, aka "Suggestions/questions/comments" section:
I don't know how much your machine "sucks", but I am guessing you are careful to make it not so strong that it bends the record... 🙂
Obvious improvements that you might try to incorporate for more-final versions, mostly aesthetics:
The hose for the fluid, from the top of the chassis need it have that big loop sticking up? Possibly a shorter, right-angle hose would do. If you could incorporate the tube into the underside of the bar to which it attaches, that could hide it altogether and would give it a more "engineered" appearance. That said, I think the way the tube fits snugly against the bar and the way it fills the loops, both look nice.
Obviously, a prettier clamp would not hurt.
The box: With a top. Nice wood finish, pretty hinges, with a clasp.
If you can find a quiet motor for the vacuum source, that would be nice (obviously, a secondary concern if the one you are thinking of does not do the job quietly, but does it well, that is probably OK). Are existing commercial offerings loud? I never heard one, can't complain. It just seems to me that a loud noise before listening to music, can't help the enjoyment of the music!
Some ventilation on the bottom/back to let any moisture caught by the vaccuum to disperse
Easy access to the reservoir and filter would be very, very good ideas. I don't know how easy your current design is to service, but JIC.
A dead-sipmple method for replacing the brush-pad for the -um- less-technical user. If this takes too much effort, most folks willing to pony up for the device will likely be able/willing to cut/fit the new brush themselves
For the customer, a thorough user's manual would be nice with detailed instructions and disclaimers (the latter for you! )
A final detail that could be worked around with one of those disclaimers: make sure the main motor can run for a long time under use, to avoid overheating/warping/fire concerns.
MosfetOwner, a high alchohol content along with a little detergent, goes a Very Long Way to getting rid of fingerprints. A high quality brush will do the same.
Stocker, all were valid points, and will certainly be implimented in my new design. But, my design was a project for any DIYer to be able to build at home, not a design to take into production. Still, you raised some very good points that I do need to address anyway, and I will most certainly do so. Thanks for your comments, they were heard and will be implimented!! 😀
I don't know how much your machine "sucks", but I am guessing you are careful to make it not so strong that it bends the record...
>>>>>>This is a good point. I am thinking of putting a small wheel (like a hotwheels car wheel) on the front and the rear of the vacuum wand so that the wand "rides" on the record and keeps a constant predetermined gap between the wand and the record surface.
Obvious improvements that you might try to incorporate for more-final versions, mostly aesthetics:
The hose for the fluid, from the top of the chassis need it have that big loop sticking up? Possibly a shorter, right-angle hose would do. If you could incorporate the tube into the underside of the bar to which it attaches, that could hide it altogether and would give it a more "engineered" appearance. That said, I think the way the tube fits snugly against the bar and the way it fills the loops, both look nice.
>>>>>> Yep, the hose is a hoser, but I didn't have any angles around. I will installthe hose inside the arms on the next design. Personally, I like the look of the fluid hose and it's wand, kinda a retro look. 🙂
Obviously, a prettier clamp would not hurt.
>>>>>>No doubt. But I think I would still keep it wood, just make it rounder and give it a nice varnish.
The box: With a top. Nice wood finish, pretty hinges, with a clasp.
>>>>>>This is definetly in the works. I just have to miniturize the vacuum first.
If you can find a quiet motor for the vacuum source, that would be nice (obviously, a secondary concern if the one you are thinking of does not do the job quietly, but does it well, that is probably OK). Are existing commercial offerings loud? I never heard one, can't complain. It just seems to me that a loud noise before listening to music, can't help the enjoyment of the music!
>>>>>> Although it is noisy, it's not loud. My wife doesn't mind the few moments of noise. The next design will incorporate a silent run motor and a softer vacuum.
Some ventilation on the bottom/back to let any moisture caught by the vaccuum to disperse
>>>>> This is very important. Thanks for the heads up. I will impliment this in my next version.
Easy access to the reservoir and filter would be very, very good ideas. I don't know how easy your current design is to service, but JIC.
>>>>> This is important too. I can have a removeable drawer that houses the container, or I can keep the container outside (but this would show ugly hoses around the unit).
A dead-sipmple method for replacing the brush-pad for the -um- less-technical user. If this takes too much effort, most folks willing to pony up for the device will likely be able/willing to cut/fit the new brush themselves
>>>>>> Yep, could'nt agree with you more here. I will have a slide on brush system for the next version. Just slide any number of premade brushes over the wand and volai! Done.
For the customer, a thorough user's manual would be nice with detailed instructions and disclaimers (the latter for you! )
>>>>>> Very true.
Thanks for the suggestions. Any more would be greatly appreciated!!
>>>>>>This is a good point. I am thinking of putting a small wheel (like a hotwheels car wheel) on the front and the rear of the vacuum wand so that the wand "rides" on the record and keeps a constant predetermined gap between the wand and the record surface.
Obvious improvements that you might try to incorporate for more-final versions, mostly aesthetics:
The hose for the fluid, from the top of the chassis need it have that big loop sticking up? Possibly a shorter, right-angle hose would do. If you could incorporate the tube into the underside of the bar to which it attaches, that could hide it altogether and would give it a more "engineered" appearance. That said, I think the way the tube fits snugly against the bar and the way it fills the loops, both look nice.
>>>>>> Yep, the hose is a hoser, but I didn't have any angles around. I will installthe hose inside the arms on the next design. Personally, I like the look of the fluid hose and it's wand, kinda a retro look. 🙂
Obviously, a prettier clamp would not hurt.
>>>>>>No doubt. But I think I would still keep it wood, just make it rounder and give it a nice varnish.
The box: With a top. Nice wood finish, pretty hinges, with a clasp.
>>>>>>This is definetly in the works. I just have to miniturize the vacuum first.
If you can find a quiet motor for the vacuum source, that would be nice (obviously, a secondary concern if the one you are thinking of does not do the job quietly, but does it well, that is probably OK). Are existing commercial offerings loud? I never heard one, can't complain. It just seems to me that a loud noise before listening to music, can't help the enjoyment of the music!
>>>>>> Although it is noisy, it's not loud. My wife doesn't mind the few moments of noise. The next design will incorporate a silent run motor and a softer vacuum.
Some ventilation on the bottom/back to let any moisture caught by the vaccuum to disperse
>>>>> This is very important. Thanks for the heads up. I will impliment this in my next version.
Easy access to the reservoir and filter would be very, very good ideas. I don't know how easy your current design is to service, but JIC.
>>>>> This is important too. I can have a removeable drawer that houses the container, or I can keep the container outside (but this would show ugly hoses around the unit).
A dead-sipmple method for replacing the brush-pad for the -um- less-technical user. If this takes too much effort, most folks willing to pony up for the device will likely be able/willing to cut/fit the new brush themselves
>>>>>> Yep, could'nt agree with you more here. I will have a slide on brush system for the next version. Just slide any number of premade brushes over the wand and volai! Done.
For the customer, a thorough user's manual would be nice with detailed instructions and disclaimers (the latter for you! )
>>>>>> Very true.
Thanks for the suggestions. Any more would be greatly appreciated!!
Such a great project. Very nice and ingenious machine. I can't wait to build one myself.
I would like to buy from you, if possible, 2 tubes for both wand. I guest to you have some left.
I'll try to get the rest locally.
Thanks for sharing your project and cleaning solution formula. There is an article on cleaning solution in Stereophile this month. Some charge 50$ and more for 1L of solution. I prefer yours 😀
Thanks...
I would like to buy from you, if possible, 2 tubes for both wand. I guest to you have some left.
I'll try to get the rest locally.
Thanks for sharing your project and cleaning solution formula. There is an article on cleaning solution in Stereophile this month. Some charge 50$ and more for 1L of solution. I prefer yours 😀
Thanks...
I don't know about a wheel rolling along on the surface of a record. Especially not a *small, hard* wheel. Perhaps something that attaches to or rolls on (or in a groove on) the clamp?
I don't know, you would have to experiment... but would a hinged access panel be more or less convenient than a drawer?
Customer choice on box material/finish for extra $$$ to better incorporate the thing into their environment?
Asking for suggestions is the fast-track to lots of potentially-complicated features.
The fluid hose: I didn't mean to use an elbow, just a gentle bend in the tubing, from under the arm to along the arm, instead of the big loopty.
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/edit well that shows up like poop on my screen Truetype Fonts anyone?. You get the idea?
I don't know, you would have to experiment... but would a hinged access panel be more or less convenient than a drawer?
Customer choice on box material/finish for extra $$$ to better incorporate the thing into their environment?
Asking for suggestions is the fast-track to lots of potentially-complicated features.
The fluid hose: I didn't mean to use an elbow, just a gentle bend in the tubing, from under the arm to along the arm, instead of the big loopty.
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| 0
| 0
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/edit well that shows up like poop on my screen Truetype Fonts anyone?. You get the idea?
Stocker said:
I was thinking of putting the little wheels so that they land on the lead out and lead in of the record causing no harm to the playing surface. Besides, the vacuum pressure would'nt be so great as to have the wheels damage the surface. But who knows.
I don't know what would be easier, as hinged door or a drawer, but I agree with you that the machine needs easy access to the fluid tanks. I'm thinking a slide-out drawer because the whole resorvoir w/motor pump would slide out on the drawer. If you have to reach in and grab it yourself you stand the chance of spilling fluid inside the ARK.
Different finishes AND ARK STYLES would be cool. Maybe a retro "Metropolis" style ARK with several outboard curved tubes, or a future look with clean stainless steel finish, or contempory design with rosewood box. The possibilities are endless.
Right now I think I am just going to take a break from this project since it works so good (maybe do a few more small tweaks ) and start another project like building a nice big Apogee style frame for my Carver AL-III speakers. Then when my mind is clear again I will come back and finish the ARK to a more comtemporary finish. As for now I hope the step by step work I've done will help any of you DIYer's to make and better your own ARK. Good luck and thanks so much for all the kind comments.
JimmyNeutron
I would even nominate it as project of the month. 🙂
Very nice work.
Since I'm slowly progressing on a Aleph Ono I might be in need of a record cleaner soon.
/Hugo
Very nice work.
Since I'm slowly progressing on a Aleph Ono I might be in need of a record cleaner soon.
/Hugo
Re: replaceable "scrbbers"
I have seen a recommendation that one use a carbon fiber brush for wet cleaning records. You could mak an arm that one would slide a standard CF brush into. This would allow the quick and simple replacement of the "scrubber" element, plus replacements seem to be pretty easy to find.
Cody
I have seen a recommendation that one use a carbon fiber brush for wet cleaning records. You could mak an arm that one would slide a standard CF brush into. This would allow the quick and simple replacement of the "scrubber" element, plus replacements seem to be pretty easy to find.
Cody
Netlist said:
You are too kind Netlist. If you need help or suggestions (or maybe a prototype 🙂 ), let me know.
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