I expect that we will have a mix of battery, htdrogen (both fuel cels, and just fuel), and cleaner replacements for petrol; & diesel.
dave
dave
Toyota's Synergy is a parallel hybrid with an ICE between the motor/ICE and wheels. IMHO, the best solution is the serial hybrid where the electric motor is always hooked up directly to the wheels.
The difference to the driver is immense. Personally, I don't care for the "driver's feel" of a CVT driving the wheels. I mean, Synergy has come a long ways since the days of Honda's IMA, whereas Honda move to (a mostly) serial configuration, Toyota kept working at and refining their CVT.
(BTW, iMMD and e:HEV are the same... just marketing).
Yeah, adding peepee to your car... pretty much a kludge... and I hate to think how much German Auto PeePee costs.
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I had a custom made license plate frame on my Clarity FCEV:
"My other car is a Zeppelin"
I see the Truck (long haul) industry getting more like Locomotive trains - a Diesel engine driving a generator, powering an electric motor, driving the wheels... sounds horribly inefficient (multiplying the mechanical and electrical inefficiencies), but done this way to get around the very very complicated transmission required if only Diesel were used to drive the wheels of a locomotive train...
Electrical motor driving the wheels is very efficient, and lowers parts weight/cost, etc (no complicated transmission needed)....
Methinks the Future is Hydrogen driving generator, powering electric motor, driving wheels.
Unfortunately, Hydrogen Startups not doing so good lately...not sure if I would invest in it yet, and feel badly for those who have...or maybe a good time to get in?
Electrical motor driving the wheels is very efficient, and lowers parts weight/cost, etc (no complicated transmission needed)....
Methinks the Future is Hydrogen driving generator, powering electric motor, driving wheels.
Unfortunately, Hydrogen Startups not doing so good lately...not sure if I would invest in it yet, and feel badly for those who have...or maybe a good time to get in?
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^ "Methinks the Future is Hydrogen driving generator, powering motor, driving wheels."
Actually, with hydrogen you bypass the generator... just use the fuel cell to create electricity directly. It's a very compact package, very quiet too. You only hear the fan pushing air into the fuel cell... and only at a stop sign.
Actually, with hydrogen you bypass the generator... just use the fuel cell to create electricity directly. It's a very compact package, very quiet too. You only hear the fan pushing air into the fuel cell... and only at a stop sign.
The fuel cell turns the hydrogen into water ( along with oxygen from the air ) and creates electricity via a chemical reaction.
The ICE burns the hydrogen -another chemical reaction- using the resulting expansion to rotate a crankshaft... electricity is then created via an electric motor.
Either way, the hydrogen becomes water by reacting with oxygen. But the fuel cell is more efficient as no heat is created.
The ICE burns the hydrogen -another chemical reaction- using the resulting expansion to rotate a crankshaft... electricity is then created via an electric motor.
Either way, the hydrogen becomes water by reacting with oxygen. But the fuel cell is more efficient as no heat is created.
Same for many typical uses especially in the UK but getting on for ~£50K price for the one I mentioned. Hydrogen ~£65k. This is probably part of the problem that resulted in this
The ban on new petrol and diesel car and van sales in the UK has been delayed to 2035
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/tips-...diesel-ban-what-it-and-what-cars-are-affected
The car makers will want to keep selling high numbers. They wont here if they are in this sort of price range. Currently lots is being spent on developing the cars. The makers need to get the costs back. How much will they drop. Big question but Tesla dropped their prices but as far as I know only significantly in China - where I understand they are made.
It seems hybrids may still be sold - I assume if they dump out significantly less CO2. That in many cases currently isn't a fact. The mild hybrids tend to be lowest cots. There are moves in the right direction but the car costs get high..
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There are some big advantages to this arrangement that might not be so obvious.
Of course, the modern "electric diesel" locomotive was borne of necessity. Any kind of manual transmission and/or clutch would be impractical, to say the least.
First, an electric motor provides maximum torque at zero RPM. This alone is a huge advantage; a gas or diesel engine provides zero torque at zero RPM. So the torque and horsepower curves of a typical electric motor pretty much matches our needs for a vehicle, whether diesel electric or battery electric. And it doesn't need any gears to do this.
Second, you can optimize the diesel engine for a narrow range of RPM. This makes it easier to control emissions, and ensures peak efficiency and minimum fuel consumption.
And finally, the obvious reason: no transmission, clutch, torque converter, etc is needed. In the diesel electric locomotive, the electric motors replace the transmission - it's referred to as an "electric transmission."
@Fast Eddie D
"Second, you can optimize the diesel engine for a narrow range of RPM. This makes it easier to control emissions, and ensures peak efficiency and minimum fuel consumption."
I think this is the Atkinson Cycle engine which improves on the Otto cycle we all know. It is used in many petrol hybrids where the wheels are driven electrically and the engine revs stay constant.
I guess it will work with diesels too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atkinson_cycle
"Second, you can optimize the diesel engine for a narrow range of RPM. This makes it easier to control emissions, and ensures peak efficiency and minimum fuel consumption."
I think this is the Atkinson Cycle engine which improves on the Otto cycle we all know. It is used in many petrol hybrids where the wheels are driven electrically and the engine revs stay constant.
I guess it will work with diesels too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atkinson_cycle
May as well get used to it. Every new home should have solar. It even charges when its overcast and rainingThanks for ruining my month. I will never be able to unsee that monstrosity.
One thing that I don't know about hydrogen power;you start off using electricity to split water into hydrogen and oxygen, and presumably there's some loss, then you super cool it, taking energy then as it's stored, some leaks out, further losses, then it's converted back into electricity, even more losses - just how much electricity do you get out compared to how much you put in?
Considering there are cars that do over 10,000 mpg, wouldn't smaller lighter cars be more practical?
I dodge all this by having a job close to where I live and cycling there.
Considering there are cars that do over 10,000 mpg, wouldn't smaller lighter cars be more practical?
I dodge all this by having a job close to where I live and cycling there.
Yes, they're used with gas hybrids here now as well. But we don't have any with the wheels being driven electrically. And American consumers would probably balk at a constant-rev gas engine, although commuter trains here have constant-rev diesel engines.
My idea is a gas-electric or diesel-electric passenger vehicle with a motor on each wheel, all controlled by a computer for maximum traction at all times. My goal would be to mimic the Audi Quattro or Subaru fully symmetric all wheel drivetrain (a joy to drive) with electrically driven wheels.
^
@Fast Eddie D
(a) But we don't have any with the wheels being driven electrically. And American consumers would probably balk at a constant-rev gas engine, although commuter trains here have constant-rev diesel engines.
Hmm.. have you looked at Honda? iMMD has the electric motor drive the wheels. Indeed, serial hybrids have the electric motor drive the wheels without a transmision.
(b) My idea is a gas-electric or diesel-electric passenger vehicle with a motor on each wheel, all controlled by a computer for maximum traction at all times...
I have thought about this... but the issue now becomes unsprung weight which affects the handling big time. You would need to go to a metal-ceramic wheel/motor assembly and shift the mechanical brake disc to a sprung position by moving it inwards via a shaft. Like my old Alfa Romeo's rear brakes which were not at the wheel but right off the rear differential.
Having the electric motor and regen brake integral with the wheel assembly will save lots of mass but it's impractical (cost... spare.... maintenance). Separating the wheel from the motor/brake ( as in an old style brake drum ) brings back the issues of unsprung weight.
(c) mimic the Audi Quattro or Subaru fully symmetric all wheel drivetrain"
Again... this is not new. the Acura RL AWD hybrid does this already... Acura's SH-AWD and Honda iVTM4 has been doing this longer than Subaru... rear torque vectoring. It's crazy when you are shooting for the apex.... do ALL of your braking early, no late braking... and then start adding power as you enter the turn... watch ALL the torque go to the outside rear tire.... and I mean, ALL of the torque. As you hit the apex, torque starts to be put to the front as well. A lesson on physics ( keep one eye on the road, one eye on the dash torque display! ). This is done electrically in the Acura RL hybrid with an inboard rear electrical motor and an SH-AWD differential.
BTW, the NSX hybrid did the same thing but backwards... providing torque to the front via an electric motor while the rear went right off the mid ships mounted ICE.
@Fast Eddie D
(a) But we don't have any with the wheels being driven electrically. And American consumers would probably balk at a constant-rev gas engine, although commuter trains here have constant-rev diesel engines.
Hmm.. have you looked at Honda? iMMD has the electric motor drive the wheels. Indeed, serial hybrids have the electric motor drive the wheels without a transmision.
(b) My idea is a gas-electric or diesel-electric passenger vehicle with a motor on each wheel, all controlled by a computer for maximum traction at all times...
I have thought about this... but the issue now becomes unsprung weight which affects the handling big time. You would need to go to a metal-ceramic wheel/motor assembly and shift the mechanical brake disc to a sprung position by moving it inwards via a shaft. Like my old Alfa Romeo's rear brakes which were not at the wheel but right off the rear differential.
Having the electric motor and regen brake integral with the wheel assembly will save lots of mass but it's impractical (cost... spare.... maintenance). Separating the wheel from the motor/brake ( as in an old style brake drum ) brings back the issues of unsprung weight.
(c) mimic the Audi Quattro or Subaru fully symmetric all wheel drivetrain"
Again... this is not new. the Acura RL AWD hybrid does this already... Acura's SH-AWD and Honda iVTM4 has been doing this longer than Subaru... rear torque vectoring. It's crazy when you are shooting for the apex.... do ALL of your braking early, no late braking... and then start adding power as you enter the turn... watch ALL the torque go to the outside rear tire.... and I mean, ALL of the torque. As you hit the apex, torque starts to be put to the front as well. A lesson on physics ( keep one eye on the road, one eye on the dash torque display! ). This is done electrically in the Acura RL hybrid with an inboard rear electrical motor and an SH-AWD differential.
BTW, the NSX hybrid did the same thing but backwards... providing torque to the front via an electric motor while the rear went right off the mid ships mounted ICE.
Not quite as bad as most houses with solar panels on the roof. At least these have the edges closed in.Thanks for ruining my month. I will never be able to unsee that monstrosity.
But still rather ugly to look at.
I could be behind the curve re Honda. But our markets are different here.
Electric motors could be inboard (like old Jag brakes) to avoid adding unsprung weight. Axles are a simple solution, simpler than a whole transaxle, and that's a fact.
Acura doing it longer than Subaru? Subaru has been doing that since around 2000 I believe, maybe longer. And to mimic the simple elegance of a Quattro or Subaru powertrain is no mean feat. They work flawlessly, no electronics required. But again, our market here is different.
Electric motors could be inboard (like old Jag brakes) to avoid adding unsprung weight. Axles are a simple solution, simpler than a whole transaxle, and that's a fact.
Acura doing it longer than Subaru? Subaru has been doing that since around 2000 I believe, maybe longer. And to mimic the simple elegance of a Quattro or Subaru powertrain is no mean feat. They work flawlessly, no electronics required. But again, our market here is different.
Here (but the 35 Kg extra of unsprung mass for each wheel isn't that appealing):
https://www.carscoops.com/2023/07/whats-the-nevs-emily-gt-actually-like-to-drive/
I'm just wondering how that wheelhub PCB is going to hold up from all the shakes and vast temperature range, those ceramic SMD's are very prone to crack.
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