Hi guys!
I will like to make some high end guitar box,and drive it trough single ended KT88 monoblock and tube preamp.
Its now 3 years since i build dallas II horns with Fostex FE206EN and im really satisfied with them. Driven trough EIMAC TH 100 single ended monoblocks,without preamp,directly from streamer to monoblock. They are so powerfull and speakers so sensetive so i dont have need for preamp. Sound-heven. So,listening how guitar can sound,i want same sound for playing with band,and maybe for building one for my friend.
I will like to kindly ask all you who have expirience with this topic,what you think is the best box for such need?
Gitar frequency range is from 82 Hz to 1k Hz,maybe little higher for 24 fret guitars.
It has natural harmonics so high spectrume must be "untouched" but lower then 80 Hz i think its no need to put special efort and compromises.
Box as smalest as posible but dosent have to be micro.
Horns are to big,and what i have in mind for box is some kind of closed enclosure or partly open,or K12,or scaled K15.
But not sure what will be the best for this use and that have small dimensions. By small i mean something like 60cm wide,30cm deep,40cm high. Rough,it can be bigger also,but not too big.
What will you do for such request?
I will like to make some high end guitar box,and drive it trough single ended KT88 monoblock and tube preamp.
Its now 3 years since i build dallas II horns with Fostex FE206EN and im really satisfied with them. Driven trough EIMAC TH 100 single ended monoblocks,without preamp,directly from streamer to monoblock. They are so powerfull and speakers so sensetive so i dont have need for preamp. Sound-heven. So,listening how guitar can sound,i want same sound for playing with band,and maybe for building one for my friend.
I will like to kindly ask all you who have expirience with this topic,what you think is the best box for such need?
Gitar frequency range is from 82 Hz to 1k Hz,maybe little higher for 24 fret guitars.
It has natural harmonics so high spectrume must be "untouched" but lower then 80 Hz i think its no need to put special efort and compromises.
Box as smalest as posible but dosent have to be micro.
Horns are to big,and what i have in mind for box is some kind of closed enclosure or partly open,or K12,or scaled K15.
But not sure what will be the best for this use and that have small dimensions. By small i mean something like 60cm wide,30cm deep,40cm high. Rough,it can be bigger also,but not too big.
What will you do for such request?
Hi, I 'm no musician but I feel that you need something more rough!
I've searched trough the catalogue of Jensen speakers and I found this
https://sica.it/prodotto/c-8-r/
There's also the vintage one, with AlNiCo magnet, the V8r. I like that site! Aside to the speaker pic( no frontal pic of the cone for these two models!) there are some adjectives that describe the sound of the speaker.
That's fabulous but in HiFi it should be neutral. I mean, second step is the so-called EQ via crossover, that's why.
But with single full range we can call it 'rising response' or whatever (boominess, notch, falling response, uneven slope...) and I believe the Fostex is intended to be used in a HiFi chain, not for live...
I've searched trough the catalogue of Jensen speakers and I found this
https://sica.it/prodotto/c-8-r/
There's also the vintage one, with AlNiCo magnet, the V8r. I like that site! Aside to the speaker pic( no frontal pic of the cone for these two models!) there are some adjectives that describe the sound of the speaker.
That's fabulous but in HiFi it should be neutral. I mean, second step is the so-called EQ via crossover, that's why.
But with single full range we can call it 'rising response' or whatever (boominess, notch, falling response, uneven slope...) and I believe the Fostex is intended to be used in a HiFi chain, not for live...
So you think its to neutral or to "mild" so to say? Maybe i can put 2 drivers and one tru ribbon,bigder one. XO around 1,5-2k... that will help with shout and noise reduction.
I heard many guitar speaker,eved build few dozen for Diesenberg,but never heard clean sound from thise drivers. They all are shouting snd blending everything. Maybe box with 2 drivers is better idea.
I heard many guitar speaker,eved build few dozen for Diesenberg,but never heard clean sound from thise drivers. They all are shouting snd blending everything. Maybe box with 2 drivers is better idea.
Greets!
Based on published specs: Vb = 50 L, ~70 Hz Fb, vent = 74.6 cm^2 cutout x 1.8 cm thick baffle
Based on published specs: Vb = 50 L, ~70 Hz Fb, vent = 74.6 cm^2 cutout x 1.8 cm thick baffle
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Are you using an electric guitar with coil-pick-ups or an acoustic one with piezo or microphone?
Electric guitars need some coloration of frequency response (and eventually some distorsion) to get their beautiful sound. So a linear speaker may not be what you need. However you can also mimic coloured sound with equalization.
Also, electric guitar boxes are mostly open/semi open baffle, for better dispersion to the back and further sound coloration.
Acoustic guitars may benefit from more linear frequency response, but I am no expert here ...
It is a mistake to think of this as a "high end guitar speaker". Professional guitarists with successful careers have almost unlimited budgets to spend on their equipment, and I have not heard of one who uses hifi drivers, so it cannot be common.
If you want a hifi sounding guitar rig, more power to you to do whatever you want, but do not think you are "fixing" something, it is purely your taste.
If you want a hifi sounding guitar rig, more power to you to do whatever you want, but do not think you are "fixing" something, it is purely your taste.
Yeah, acoustic guitar box is anything but flat, but a 206 small box tuned under-damped gets him a 'smoother'/'laid back' response he can EQ to 'taste'. Don't recommend it for electric guitar though.
Hi @woodnes !
If it is for Electric Guitar, well IMHO... You are clearly going the wrong route : such a configuration will really never sound good - "guitaristically speaking", if I can say so... 😕
My DIY "The Comet" (below) uses a Fender schematic as a base of its design, and a 10" Oxford 50's AlNiCo speaker :
My DIY "The Orient-Express" (below) is similar, plus tremolo, and uses a 8" 50's UTAH AlNiCo speaker :
Both uses 12AX7 and 6V6GTA, to pour out 3 to 5W RMS... For a great "Electric Guitar Amp" tone, clean or cranked.
Nothing to do with "High-End / Audio /Hi-Fi" !
But it's me, OK ? 😉
T
Yes. The poor Fostex FE206 would not last long : just with the attacks of the pick (plectrum) on the string, it will be already flirting with its Xmax damage for a few watts output... Plus it will offer your an awful piercing tone if you go in overdrive tones, even the lightest.
I would recommend you looking to Jupiter / Jensen / WGS / Eminence / Celestion speakers - among others - that is to say Guitar Speakers.
Sure : no Hi-Fi / Audiophile / Wide-Band speaker !
Yes. I would personally consider two 12" exceptions as being "Hi-End Guitar Speakers" - but not Hi-Fi - though : the Electro-Voice EVM12L and the Altec 417-8H Series II. They have their own reputations :
The EVM12L (L stands for "Lead", that is to say guitar, organ...) is deep, straight, with a well balanced tone guitar, but he has a huge reserve of undistorted clean tone by itself : he will never "bend" your sound, your guitar amp will be cranked before him. His great feature is that he will show - if I can say so - the "real sound of your amp at any output level" - good or bad - that's why the 12L is not so favoured... 😉
My (DIY) Serial Tone Killer uses a 1980 EVM12L. It's a dual-channel switchable 5/15/30/100-Watters amp.
The Altec 417-8H Series II (H stands for "High" power handling) was more or less in competition with the EVM12L, as it was intended for musical instruments too. It's a different tone, though : not as straight as the 12L, but with a warmer tone and a peculiar "violin singing" highs character of its own, when presented with overdrive. The 417-8H is the favourite speaker of Carlos Santana, and is a great part of his tone's legendary albums, along with his Boogie MKI amp.
My (modded) 1980 Boogie MKIIA uses an Altec 417-8H Series II from the same era. It's a 60/100W amp.
T
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Those are beautiful and can fill a hall.
I mean, I always think of the ambient the speakers are placed into, so the so-called application of all the thingies is meant for music listening at home, medium sized room that can hardly be called a hall
I mean, I always think of the ambient the speakers are placed into, so the so-called application of all the thingies is meant for music listening at home, medium sized room that can hardly be called a hall
Yeah, arthritis took away my music early on, but practiced facing close to a corner to get a sense of spaciousness/hall effect.
FE206En really wants a horn to make any bass. And i suspect in an electric guitar situation you would melt a few voice coils.
How loud do you need it to go?
dave
How loud do you need it to go?
dave
Hm...but what if i put 2 206 inside? You think is still to powerless?
I dont need extra big power,just for practice,on stage or in studio it goes trogh mic anyway. I was thinking it will be oposite of what most of you are writing. But,i gues im wrong.
My idea was to get clean guitar soud,distorded with natural harmonics from SE tube amp. I supose it will be exelent for acoustic guitar,but i dont understand why is to linear for electric guitar.
And whay i will burn them? Isnt the sam if im listening guitars or i play guitar trough them?
I dont need extra big power,just for practice,on stage or in studio it goes trogh mic anyway. I was thinking it will be oposite of what most of you are writing. But,i gues im wrong.
My idea was to get clean guitar soud,distorded with natural harmonics from SE tube amp. I supose it will be exelent for acoustic guitar,but i dont understand why is to linear for electric guitar.
And whay i will burn them? Isnt the sam if im listening guitars or i play guitar trough them?
@woodnes : while reading your last post (quoted above), two interesting "side" questions comes to my mind...
1 - Do you play electric guitar ?
And :
2 - Do you have an electric guitar amplifier ?
I think - but I may be wrong, OK ? 🙂 - that the answers would be like "no", "I start" or "a little"... So let us know, then ! 😉
T
3 dB greater efficiency, capable of moving twice the air, in a proper enclosure it is going to be difficult to transport (ie big)
dave
That is the small one. Actually be easier to cary a poair around and set them up side-by-side.
dave
dave
🙂,yeah,thats to to big for carryin around. Maybe that was a dumb idea. Probably im gona teka 206s out from dallas and put in some test semi closed box,just to see what can i get from pair in such enclosure.
Im a carpenter so i know how to make box but im not so clever to understand speaker teory deep. I know what i want to get from them but,according to many of you, thats not posible from drivers like this.
Thanks to all for opinion and sugestion.
Cheers!
Im a carpenter so i know how to make box but im not so clever to understand speaker teory deep. I know what i want to get from them but,according to many of you, thats not posible from drivers like this.
Thanks to all for opinion and sugestion.
Cheers!
Well, this happens on this side of the forum, as in ' instruments and amps" it would suit better.
Basically the division in HiFi, live, pro Is sound production or sound reproduction by the means of sources like LP, Tape, Tuner ( yes, CD and everything from 40 years till now) which are somehow limited by the media/source and the physical limits of the technique. Speakers fall in this second category but there are many components that may vary .
For live sound, the true pistonicity can be set aside to favor a different character
Basically the division in HiFi, live, pro Is sound production or sound reproduction by the means of sources like LP, Tape, Tuner ( yes, CD and everything from 40 years till now) which are somehow limited by the media/source and the physical limits of the technique. Speakers fall in this second category but there are many components that may vary .
For live sound, the true pistonicity can be set aside to favor a different character