So I got all the parts I need for the touch up. The caps I got are veeery big, but that's not really a problem. I got some oak veneer that I'm going to glue on (the veneer is in quite bad shape). The Beo spare parts department were kind enough the send me a pair of the front panel locking pins 🙂
Don't go over the top while restoring the veneer. Best is to repair it, as replacing veneer usually ends in a mess.
Do not start with sanding!
First try with an hot iron, as many wood glues are temperature sensitive. That way you can fix loose parts.
Then clean the whole cabinets veneer with a damp cloth and some tough house hold cleaner using very little water. Over the years nicotine and grease have contaminated the surface, compromising any new varnish.
If parts of veneer are missing, do not replace any small spot. Get wood putty in a matching color. Use it on damage that you can not clearly spot from 2 meters distance. These will blend in after the clear coat has been done.
If larger missing pieces have to be replaced, clean the spot from old glue cut veneer to fit and then use simple, white wood glue. Carefully apply it on both parts and let dry until it gets transparent. Then position it and with the iron on the cotton stage, heath and press. The glue will melt and you get a perfect bond when cooled down. Finish with wood putty, then sand until smooth.
Last sand the whole cabinet with very fine grid, in most cases 240 is just fine. Best to use an ex-center sander and finish edges by hand. Do not expect the clear coat to fill any faults, this job has to be done by putty. New veneer and colored putty get darker when painted with clear coat. Best is to make a small test panel to predict results.
Carefully remove any dust. A vacuum cleaner and a soft brush work very well together. Finally use a damp micro fiber cloth. Now you are ready to apply clear coat.
Follow the manufacturers advice. I prefer water based floor varnish, you get it in glossy and semi gloss. Water based can be used in the house without everyone freaking out.
If you use a paint brush, buy just a single, very good one! May be quite expensive. Between stages, store it in a plastic bag with a few drops of water. That way you need not clean it for a one day break.
With some practice, you will not see it is hand painted, as the wood has a direction you follow with the brush.
First coat may be thinned a little, after drying, carefully sand it, as small wood fibers and edges will rise up. By sanding you cut these off. This is the last time you may correct mistakes. New veneer may rise up after the first coat, which will need partial sanding down and a second, partial prime coat.
The most often made mistakes are to much varnish, not letting dry, not sanding and sanding to hard and too coarse. Take you time. Sub 20°C the times for paint to dry rise exponentially.
Depending on your material, you will need a prime coat and 1-3 coats to finish. Each has to be dried and sanded to remove imperfections. The last coat has to be made in dust free conditions. Close doors, wear clean clothes and move slow and careful. That way you do not need a clean room for good results.
Such a restoration does not need expensive material, it is the work that makes the value.
Show your result if you are finished!
Do not start with sanding!
First try with an hot iron, as many wood glues are temperature sensitive. That way you can fix loose parts.
Then clean the whole cabinets veneer with a damp cloth and some tough house hold cleaner using very little water. Over the years nicotine and grease have contaminated the surface, compromising any new varnish.
If parts of veneer are missing, do not replace any small spot. Get wood putty in a matching color. Use it on damage that you can not clearly spot from 2 meters distance. These will blend in after the clear coat has been done.
If larger missing pieces have to be replaced, clean the spot from old glue cut veneer to fit and then use simple, white wood glue. Carefully apply it on both parts and let dry until it gets transparent. Then position it and with the iron on the cotton stage, heath and press. The glue will melt and you get a perfect bond when cooled down. Finish with wood putty, then sand until smooth.
Last sand the whole cabinet with very fine grid, in most cases 240 is just fine. Best to use an ex-center sander and finish edges by hand. Do not expect the clear coat to fill any faults, this job has to be done by putty. New veneer and colored putty get darker when painted with clear coat. Best is to make a small test panel to predict results.
Carefully remove any dust. A vacuum cleaner and a soft brush work very well together. Finally use a damp micro fiber cloth. Now you are ready to apply clear coat.
Follow the manufacturers advice. I prefer water based floor varnish, you get it in glossy and semi gloss. Water based can be used in the house without everyone freaking out.
If you use a paint brush, buy just a single, very good one! May be quite expensive. Between stages, store it in a plastic bag with a few drops of water. That way you need not clean it for a one day break.
With some practice, you will not see it is hand painted, as the wood has a direction you follow with the brush.
First coat may be thinned a little, after drying, carefully sand it, as small wood fibers and edges will rise up. By sanding you cut these off. This is the last time you may correct mistakes. New veneer may rise up after the first coat, which will need partial sanding down and a second, partial prime coat.
The most often made mistakes are to much varnish, not letting dry, not sanding and sanding to hard and too coarse. Take you time. Sub 20°C the times for paint to dry rise exponentially.
Depending on your material, you will need a prime coat and 1-3 coats to finish. Each has to be dried and sanded to remove imperfections. The last coat has to be made in dust free conditions. Close doors, wear clean clothes and move slow and careful. That way you do not need a clean room for good results.
Such a restoration does not need expensive material, it is the work that makes the value.
Show your result if you are finished!
Thanks for your post Turbo
I've painted a lot of guitar through the years and feel I got that covered. Currently the plan is to go for some semi gloss or mate varnish as it gives a more woody feel (look) to the finish. About the setting time, depending of what varnish I use, if needed I wait several months if I have to wet sand between coats, or before wet-sand polish. Eh, which I don't plan to do in this case as don't want a glossy finish.
Regarding the glue used by Beo I don't really have clue, but I'll start by trying different removal techniques on one of the bottom sides. I hope for some wood glue as it should be fairly easy to remove the veneer then. I guess worst case would be some contact adhesive.
I've painted a lot of guitar through the years and feel I got that covered. Currently the plan is to go for some semi gloss or mate varnish as it gives a more woody feel (look) to the finish. About the setting time, depending of what varnish I use, if needed I wait several months if I have to wet sand between coats, or before wet-sand polish. Eh, which I don't plan to do in this case as don't want a glossy finish.
Regarding the glue used by Beo I don't really have clue, but I'll start by trying different removal techniques on one of the bottom sides. I hope for some wood glue as it should be fairly easy to remove the veneer then. I guess worst case would be some contact adhesive.
Try with heat, there is always a chance it may react and get elastic. Many veneers are glued with bone glue (animal, hide, fish) or PVA wood glue, as these do not need to cure, but only to cool down. These can be melted and even after ages reused when heated.
When you restore instruments, you are looking for imperfections with a magnifying glass. For speaker cabinets, this is what I call "over the top".
You should consider that you do not use them near your eyes, but at a minimum of about 2 meters.
When you restore instruments, you are looking for imperfections with a magnifying glass. For speaker cabinets, this is what I call "over the top".
You should consider that you do not use them near your eyes, but at a minimum of about 2 meters.
The project is coming along, slowly. I've replaced the caps and some wires. The veneer is removed and new oak veneer is almost done, just one last sheet for the top of each speaker to be done.
Removing the old veneer was a hustle, but is was so damaged that it was worth is, if you ask me.
Removing the old veneer was a hustle, but is was so damaged that it was worth is, if you ask me.
I have the old speakers up and running now. They lack a bit of bass, so I might have another go at the xover filters to adress that.
Nice to hear you got them finished.
With the lack of bass, this is very common. They just didn't have the drivers to do that in these years. You will not be able to squeze much more out of them.
I have seen too many faild tries with such speakers. The only way to get them moving is to cross them over at 80 Hz and use a subwoofer. Active, of course.
Keeping the low bass away from them will result in exttreme improvement of detail and spaciousness, while the sub will add the "umpf" your missing. A single, good 10" should do. If going active, don't go (the old) half way, but use be sure to use a DSP. Round up with a microfone and you will never go back.
With the lack of bass, this is very common. They just didn't have the drivers to do that in these years. You will not be able to squeze much more out of them.
I have seen too many faild tries with such speakers. The only way to get them moving is to cross them over at 80 Hz and use a subwoofer. Active, of course.
Keeping the low bass away from them will result in exttreme improvement of detail and spaciousness, while the sub will add the "umpf" your missing. A single, good 10" should do. If going active, don't go (the old) half way, but use be sure to use a DSP. Round up with a microfone and you will never go back.
Thanks for the reply!
So you suggest an active sub woofer. How are onboard sub woofer amplifiers normally set up? Do I have to build the high-pass filter for the speakers, or is this something I can expect a sub woofer amplifier to handle, i.e. do the low pass for the sub woofer and the high pass for the speakers in one blow, so to speak?
So you suggest an active sub woofer. How are onboard sub woofer amplifiers normally set up? Do I have to build the high-pass filter for the speakers, or is this something I can expect a sub woofer amplifier to handle, i.e. do the low pass for the sub woofer and the high pass for the speakers in one blow, so to speak?
Depends on how you drive the main speaker. A practical approach is to go from the preamp to a DSP an divide the signal for high (main speaker) and sub. This needs 3 amp channels. This way you can time align and equalize to match your room.
If you use an integrated amp, in most cases you can divide it for preamp out and power amp in.
PS a DSP is cheaper than any passive crossover and has much more benefit
If you use an integrated amp, in most cases you can divide it for preamp out and power amp in.
PS a DSP is cheaper than any passive crossover and has much more benefit
It's a single end amp with GU50 tubes in the power stage that has been sitting on my self for years. Now it's going to fine a new home at my sons place, as he recently moved out.
Suggestions are highly appreciated!
Suggestions are highly appreciated!
So preamp, DSP, tube amp for main speaker, transistor for the sub. That can make good sense.
Thomann has a DSP which is even symmetrical in/out if you can use that with the tube. Anyway, connecting the sub amp symmetric prevents any hum problems. https://www.thomann.de/se/the_t.racks_dsp_4x4_mini.htm Germany to Sweden= no taxes=EU.
You find some well build, low cost pro amps there, well suited for a sub or two. You will not be able to even get a similar DIYS case for the price of an entry level, Thomann pro amp which is well suited for home HIFI sub. Starting around €140like: https://www.thomann.de/se/the_tamp_e400.htm
You can bridge most of these, turning 2 channels into one with more than twice the power, if you only want a single subwoofer. If they have a build in fan, which makes a little noise, you can disconnect, throttle or replace it by a silent one. Such amps sound much better than any plate amp or the like, at much lower cost. Throw in some cables for connecting the stuff, Thomann has very good, professional grade stuff at unbeatable prices.
The subwoofer you need depends on the room and housing situation. One or two 10" woofer should be a good start, if you live in a house with no neigbours, consider 12". Do you want to build DIYS? There are many options, mature and tested designs. I would think of €150-300 for one or two chassis if you want a high quality sub, plus wood of course. My favorite would be a single box with a woofer left and right, compensating any vibration.
,
So we will end up with maybe 400-500, for a system for your main speaker you can hardly buy better, even if you spend 5 times the money. This is where DIYS excels: Combine the best parts and build the most expensiv/ rare part by your self.
Thomann has a DSP which is even symmetrical in/out if you can use that with the tube. Anyway, connecting the sub amp symmetric prevents any hum problems. https://www.thomann.de/se/the_t.racks_dsp_4x4_mini.htm Germany to Sweden= no taxes=EU.
You find some well build, low cost pro amps there, well suited for a sub or two. You will not be able to even get a similar DIYS case for the price of an entry level, Thomann pro amp which is well suited for home HIFI sub. Starting around €140like: https://www.thomann.de/se/the_tamp_e400.htm
You can bridge most of these, turning 2 channels into one with more than twice the power, if you only want a single subwoofer. If they have a build in fan, which makes a little noise, you can disconnect, throttle or replace it by a silent one. Such amps sound much better than any plate amp or the like, at much lower cost. Throw in some cables for connecting the stuff, Thomann has very good, professional grade stuff at unbeatable prices.
The subwoofer you need depends on the room and housing situation. One or two 10" woofer should be a good start, if you live in a house with no neigbours, consider 12". Do you want to build DIYS? There are many options, mature and tested designs. I would think of €150-300 for one or two chassis if you want a high quality sub, plus wood of course. My favorite would be a single box with a woofer left and right, compensating any vibration.
,
So we will end up with maybe 400-500, for a system for your main speaker you can hardly buy better, even if you spend 5 times the money. This is where DIYS excels: Combine the best parts and build the most expensiv/ rare part by your self.
Okay, so I hook up my source to the dsp, and set up the xover in that, thingy. After that I feed the filtered signals to the 2 amplifiers, and then on to the S45s and sub woofer. You wouldn't happen to have suggestions on on woofer drivers and maybe designs?
You got it.
With DIYS I always go for a minimum quality, which is well about consumer grade HIFI. Consumer class, mass produced stuff is made better and cheaper by the industry. You can not compete with a €250 active plate amp, 12" subwoofer in a vinyl veneered cabinet. So what I shoot for would be found at a specialized HIFI dealer. This is where you can build something from the €1.000 plus class for a fraction.
A nice woofer is this one: https://oaudio.de/REDCATT-SW108-PC_1
Have a read of the PDF to get an idea about size etc. This is a very high quality woofer for a very reasonable price. One or two in a closed box, DSP'd for your room would be great. The mentioned amp has no problem to drive them.
With DIYS I always go for a minimum quality, which is well about consumer grade HIFI. Consumer class, mass produced stuff is made better and cheaper by the industry. You can not compete with a €250 active plate amp, 12" subwoofer in a vinyl veneered cabinet. So what I shoot for would be found at a specialized HIFI dealer. This is where you can build something from the €1.000 plus class for a fraction.
A nice woofer is this one: https://oaudio.de/REDCATT-SW108-PC_1
Have a read of the PDF to get an idea about size etc. This is a very high quality woofer for a very reasonable price. One or two in a closed box, DSP'd for your room would be great. The mentioned amp has no problem to drive them.
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Another very good woofer for a smaller room or to be used in multiples (two in a 80 liter vented cabinet), for a price you usualy pay for a cheap steel basket driver https://reckhorn.com/lautsprecher/l...er-chassis-bass-einbaulautsprecher-25cm?c=120
Thanks a lot!
I think I might have time to look into this later today. When you write 2 woofer set up to minimize vibrations. Do you mean that the woofers should fire in opposite directions from the box?
I think I might have time to look into this later today. When you write 2 woofer set up to minimize vibrations. Do you mean that the woofers should fire in opposite directions from the box?
Bass? But how is the B&O box made of? I see you talking about veneering but the crucial thing about 'a box' for a speaker is to be soundproof. How is that plastic baffle composed? And the rest? Veneered 1 cm chipboard?
I was to say to use some lead sheet in the inside but nowadays it's hard to find...
I was to say to use some lead sheet in the inside but nowadays it's hard to find...
Hi, I fear the language barrier makes it hard for me to fully understand what your asking... The S45 are made out of ~1/2" chipboard, the plastic front is slightly thinner Bakelite-like plastic, the front panel is a thin sheet of plastic to which I have fixed fabric using double-sided adhesive tape. I reused the dampening material stuffed into the speakers, in addition I added sound dampening material to the interior.
errr...no, I wasn't talkink about dampening but sound trasmission. Yes, the box is 'thin' as I expected, so it's a dipole practically. In order to make not the sound trasmit trough the box I suggested to put a layer of lead onto all the surfaces inside the box. Easy? Not so much. Lead sheet is absent from many stores