2023 Econowave?

[spots25]

I need new speakers, and really want to build something. I've been looking around and fell in love with the Mezzo Calpamos. It's beautiful, a little different, and seems like it would excel at HT and music. It's a little big (but in some dimensions smaller than my magnepan mmg) but I think I might be able to talk the wife into it. Then, I realized I was looking at the price for one kit, and needing two I'm pretty sure it's out of budget.

I did more looking around and came across the Econowave and all it's iterations and thought I might be able to DIY a higher end econowave that is close for a lot less $$. However:

1. Most of the parts (especially waveguides) seem to be discontinued

2. Nobody seems to make them anymore. I don't know if that is because of question 1, or because something better came along, or if they weren't that good to begin with.

3. I wonder if econowaves "replaced" by designed that place normal tweeters in a waveguide that combined the best of both worlds?

Any thoughts? Thanks!

 

[poseidonsvoice]

Have you looked at the offerings at DIYSOUNDGROUP?

Best,
Anand.

 

[AllenB]

While there were specific designs, I tended to see econowaves as representing any DIY waveguide style speaker.

It is very sad that Zilch passed away and wasn't able to continue bringing workable combinations together. However I remember the first waveguide style speakers I put together and I think anyone can or will go through similar experimentation using available parts and objects to make their devices.

 

[tommus]

1. there are some good constant directivity waveguide available - 18Sound XT1086, Dayton H6512, Eminence H290B (and the Wayne Parham/Pi Speakers variant of it)

2. they do sound good. seems like this forum is interested in more complex designs these days.

3. you can do this but you won't get the dynamics, sensitivity and low-end output that you'd get from a compression driver

In the end it's just a DIY version of the ubiquitous 12" + 1" PA speaker. A bit boring I guess but the design checks a lot of boxes. Years ago I built a high-spec pair for my LR with an 18" sealed sub and haven't yet had the itch to replace them.

 

[spots25]

Have you looked at the offerings at DIYSOUNDGROUP?

Best,
Anand.

I have, but I've never seen anything in stock.

Sad to hear Zilch passed away, we're losing helpful community members left and right!

Does the waveguide make much of a difference in the crossover design?
If I used the same woofer and compression driver with a different waveguide would it work out?
Would keeping the same box width but mounting the horn externally on top screw with the woofer baffle step compensation too much?

 

[GM]

+1 Wonder how long before some forum member(s) start ~mass marketing printed WGs. Been somewhat surprised the Vintage Altec, JBL folks have only been making ~replicas in $$wood$$ when they could make internal molds to trace/whatever for paper mache, molded and/or printed to exacting replicas (for better or worse) 'on the cheap'.

 

[Patrick Bateman]

Waveguide is still available, Parts Express cloned it:

https://www.parts-express.com/Dayto...-12-Waveguide-1-3-8-18-TPI-270-318?quantity=1

Enjoy!

 

[spots25]

Most econowave designs used the QSC 152i waveguide, I couldn't find one anywhere

 

[Patrick Bateman]

I bought them all

Want me to list some in Swap Meet?

 

[Brett]

Most econowave designs used the QSC 152i waveguide

No they didn't, most were based around the JBL WG because it's really good and in 2010 it was like $10 as a spare part. The Dayton is close enough.

What about the Asathor?
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/asathor-a-jbl-4367-clone.367215/unread

 

[GM]

Which JBL WG?

Doing a thread search found no 4367 clone, just listings of some other brands.

In a 90 x 40 x 500 Hz search this one looks promising if there's some 1", 1.4" adapters available.

 

[Arez]

The original econowave waveguides:
Jbl part nr: 338800-001

Other variations:

Pyle pro PH612

Dayton audio H6412.

There was also the qsc 152I waveguide, only available as spare parts now from mfg.

B52 PHRN

And prv wg 35 xxxxxx now discontinued also.

 

[TBTL]

The 90x50 dispersion is something that must suit your taste. I prefer a wider dispersion.

 

[GM]

Do you mean 90 x 40? If so, yes.

 

[Arez]

Not editable anymore so sorry for the double post, model numbers for qsc,B-52,prv audio.

QSC PL-000446GP.
B-52 PHRN-1014
PRV Audio WG35-25-B

For those who cant get the originals:
Not as pristine finish as jbls and so on.

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/4000812790880.html?spm=a2g0n.productlist.0.0.2ab0e6a5HC4ept&browser_id=4695b910e14343be86905e2cc241cdba&aff_platform=msite&m_page_id=nnigyjqcauqiyso186abda04ef139c11ce41e4047d&gclid=&pdp_npi=3@dis!NOK!298.19!250.47!!!!!@211bf04a16779205074067808d0710!10000008131490203!sea!NO!0&isseo=y&algo_pvid=2ae113f6-47e2-4d59-aed6-a52e820dbe8c


https://m.aliexpress.com/item/1005003069103981.html?spm=a2g0n.productlist.0.0.2ab0e6a5HC4ept&browser_id=4695b910e14343be86905e2cc241cdba&aff_platform=msite&m_page_id=nnigyjqcauqiyso186abda04ef139c11ce41e4047d&gclid=&pdp_npi=3@dis!NOK!62.41!48.03!!!!!@211bc2a016779205523256540d06f3!12000025331102766!sea!NO!0&isseo=y&algo_pvid=eae56f3c-15bc-40a9-b163-8007bc9dca68

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/1005004283707934.html?spm=a2g0n.productlist.0.0.2ab0e6a5HC4ept&browser_id=4695b910e14343be86905e2cc241cdba&aff_platform=msite&m_page_id=nnigyjqcauqiyso186abda04ef139c11ce41e4047d&gclid=&pdp_npi=3@dis!NOK!66.37!57.1!!!!!@210217c716779204374978811d0750!12000028623823448!sea!NO!0&isseo=y&algo_pvid=09464289-fc4b-46cf-911a-5dc05f65443a

 

[wallacefl]

For fun check out the older JBL L 200t3.

 

[bedrock602]

These look the same and both are rated to 1200 Hz, yet one is classified as "waveguide", the other "horn".

Where do we draw the distinction?

"waveguide"

https://www.parts-express.com/PRV-Audio-WG-11-25-45x45-ABS-Waveguide-1-3-8-18-294-2842?quantity=1

"horn"

https://www.parts-express.com/Selen...al-Horn-60x60-1-3-8-18-TPI-264-306?quantity=1

 

[celef]

this site has great tests of waveguides, only too bad some are difficult to accuire, like the qsc pl-000446gp that looks very good

https://www.mtg-designs.com/tips-tricks-tests/waveguide-shootout

 

[plasnu]

These look the same and both are rated to 1200 Hz, yet one is classified as "waveguide", the other "horn".

Where do we draw the distinction?

"waveguide"

https://www.parts-express.com/PRV-Audio-WG-11-25-45x45-ABS-Waveguide-1-3-8-18-294-2842?quantity=1

"horn"

https://www.parts-express.com/Selen...al-Horn-60x60-1-3-8-18-TPI-264-306?quantity=1

Fundamentally, there is no decisive difference between Waveguide and horn. Peavey was probably the first to use the term Waveguide, but I think it was just a new type of composite horn called that for marketing reasons. Eventually JBL also followed it and called the composite horn Progressive Transition (PT) Waveguide. If I'm wrong, someone please correct me.

 

[vineethkumar01]

Mine is not exactly an econowave-type design. Still, if anyone is interested in 3D printing a horn for a 10 or 12-inch woofer like 12PR320, I would seriously recommend looking at one of the published designs on the ATH thread. My experiences with a 2-way system with 2 x 9.5-inch woofers and a BMS 4550 CD + ST260 KVAR horn (from the ATH thread) are documented here.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/a-3-way-design-study.376620/post-7286108
I have been trying out different 2-way and 3-way configurations for some time now and find the above configuration the best sounding so far.