I've been following Sieji's tests and reviews of the FE108SS at his Xperience Speaker Factory blog.
"Originally, this Super Swan contained FE108-Sol. When I replace the unit with his FE108SS-HP and play it as it is, I feel that there is almost no problem at this point. It feels a little more mature than the FE108-Sol, but it has a beautiful sound."
The FE108-Sol is highly regarded. So that's encouraging.
"Originally, this Super Swan contained FE108-Sol. When I replace the unit with his FE108SS-HP and play it as it is, I feel that there is almost no problem at this point. It feels a little more mature than the FE108-Sol, but it has a beautiful sound."
The FE108-Sol is highly regarded. So that's encouraging.
FE108SS-HP 100mm (Equiv ø radius 40mm, no idea why madisound is calling it a 5" driver, they list 108EZ Equiv ø radius 40mm as 4" driver) driver does appear expensive in comparison to MarkAudio MAOP 5 101mm driver pair at not much more than the cost of a single 108SS-HP.
^ "FE108SS-HP + D-101S sounds with a quality that makes me forget that it is a 10cm full-range back load horn."
"I often hear and hear expressions such as "the amount of bass that is larger than the size" as the sound of a unit with a small caliber, but not only the aspect of "the amount is for the size ..." but also "the quality is backload ..." It was also an excellent sound in that respect. The back load horn, especially the small caliber back load horn, had the image of pushing through with just the goodness of energy, but this combination has a texture that is not the only one."
-
"This is probably true for all backloaded horns using the FE108SS-HP, not just the Super Swan (or maybe the FE168SSHP), but because the unit itself tends to sound better, it's "unrestrained." It seems that it is better to adjust with the image of "adjusting in a well-balanced manner" instead of using "actively suppressing the sound that sounds". By doing this, you will be able to fully demonstrate the original power of this unit."
Wonder how the driver would do in a Frugal Horn (Std FH or FHXL ?), perhaps Woden de Havilland Series Lancet mass-loaded Voit or something else from Dr Scott, could there be an appreciable improvement on the Nagaoka Swan D-101S/108SS-HP and or the Fostex recommended BLH?
I've been reading this forum long enough to know P-10 Dave found many Fostex cabinets to be terrible with only one or two exceptions, one being the 108EZ BLH (Terry Cain so I'm thinking the ^^ Fostex recommended cabinet BLH may be among that small group and a good starting place, IDK?
The good news is I'm told Joseph Crowe Speaker # 1630 with yet-to-be-determined x-over changes should work well with 108SS-HP 🙂
Looking forward to Troy J Crowe's findings.
^ https://www-xperience-jp.translate....tr_sl=ja&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=sc
^^ https://www.fostex.jp/wp/wp-content/uploads/FE108SS-HP_specification_application_sheet.pdf
^ "FE108SS-HP + D-101S sounds with a quality that makes me forget that it is a 10cm full-range back load horn."
"I often hear and hear expressions such as "the amount of bass that is larger than the size" as the sound of a unit with a small caliber, but not only the aspect of "the amount is for the size ..." but also "the quality is backload ..." It was also an excellent sound in that respect. The back load horn, especially the small caliber back load horn, had the image of pushing through with just the goodness of energy, but this combination has a texture that is not the only one."
-
"This is probably true for all backloaded horns using the FE108SS-HP, not just the Super Swan (or maybe the FE168SSHP), but because the unit itself tends to sound better, it's "unrestrained." It seems that it is better to adjust with the image of "adjusting in a well-balanced manner" instead of using "actively suppressing the sound that sounds". By doing this, you will be able to fully demonstrate the original power of this unit."
Wonder how the driver would do in a Frugal Horn (Std FH or FHXL ?), perhaps Woden de Havilland Series Lancet mass-loaded Voit or something else from Dr Scott, could there be an appreciable improvement on the Nagaoka Swan D-101S/108SS-HP and or the Fostex recommended BLH?
I've been reading this forum long enough to know P-10 Dave found many Fostex cabinets to be terrible with only one or two exceptions, one being the 108EZ BLH (Terry Cain so I'm thinking the ^^ Fostex recommended cabinet BLH may be among that small group and a good starting place, IDK?
The good news is I'm told Joseph Crowe Speaker # 1630 with yet-to-be-determined x-over changes should work well with 108SS-HP 🙂
Looking forward to Troy J Crowe's findings.
^ https://www-xperience-jp.translate....tr_sl=ja&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=sc
^^ https://www.fostex.jp/wp/wp-content/uploads/FE108SS-HP_specification_application_sheet.pdf
https://josephcrowe.com/blogs/news/fostex-fe105ss-hp-fullrange-driver
Thank you Troy J Crowe for telling it like it is. Very happy I waited for this before pulling the trigger on the driver
The review may looks bad, but I think this driver measures much better than most other Foxtex drivers.
Fe108ss, low-Q peak at 2k(easy passive correction), high-q null at 10k(inaudible), easy to make it +-2.5db passively
Mark CHR70, high-Q peak above 10k(very audible)
FE108ns, high-Q peak at 6k, 9k(bad!), big low-Q null at 600hz(audible):
FE108EZ, deep medium null at 1k(audible), high-Q null at 6khz(inaudible), medium peak at 7.5khz:
All considered, I'll argue this is the best measured Foxtex driver, and probably not worse than most Markaudios(I own multiple myself). But pricing is probably another story.
Fe108ss, low-Q peak at 2k(easy passive correction), high-q null at 10k(inaudible), easy to make it +-2.5db passively
Mark CHR70, high-Q peak above 10k(very audible)
FE108ns, high-Q peak at 6k, 9k(bad!), big low-Q null at 600hz(audible):
FE108EZ, deep medium null at 1k(audible), high-Q null at 6khz(inaudible), medium peak at 7.5khz:
All considered, I'll argue this is the best measured Foxtex driver, and probably not worse than most Markaudios(I own multiple myself). But pricing is probably another story.
FE108e∑ the best fostex driver in terms of measurements?
WHAT?
I have the FE108e∑ ans FF85k and FE126
the FE108e∑ is the worst measuring driver here
WHAT?
I have the FE108e∑ ans FF85k and FE126
the FE108e∑ is the worst measuring driver here
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Although fe108ss seems to measure ok in my point of view, it has a lot of medium-low level breakups across the frequency range, seems Fostex is trying many hacks (unusual cone profile/damping glue in the back of cone) to break big resonances into smaller ones. That must means there's a lot of colorations in the midrange. Whether you like it or not is hard to know without listening.
Personally, if I pick a short throw 4 inch, I will pick Visaton B100. it's a lively/colorful sounding driver to me. I also have WF120cu07, a driver measures almost perfect, but it sounds kind of uninteresting to me. I sold my FE108ez a few years ago, its midrange sounds a bit "papery" as if the cone is not rigid enough.
Personally, if I pick a short throw 4 inch, I will pick Visaton B100. it's a lively/colorful sounding driver to me. I also have WF120cu07, a driver measures almost perfect, but it sounds kind of uninteresting to me. I sold my FE108ez a few years ago, its midrange sounds a bit "papery" as if the cone is not rigid enough.
^ more to the story than Fq Resp., amoung other things, Troy JC wasn't happy with the drivers distortion levelThe review may looks bad, but I think this driver measures much better than most other Foxtex drivers.
Fe108ss, low-Q peak at 2k(easy passive correction), high-q null at 10k(inaudible), easy to make it +-2.5db passively
Mark CHR70, high-Q peak above 10k(very audible)
FE108ns, high-Q peak at 6k, 9k(bad!), big low-Q null at 600hz(audible):
FE108EZ, deep medium null at 1k(audible), high-Q null at 6khz(inaudible), medium peak at 7.5khz:
All considered, I'll argue this is the best measured Foxtex driver, and probably not worse than most Markaudios(I own multiple myself). But pricing is probably another story.
"Looking at distortion we don't achieve anything better than -50dB. For reference, I usually look for -65dB or better for audiophile levels of clarity."
of FE108SS-HP Troy JC said
"Subjectively I found the driver to have a nasally sound character. Even after applying some EQ to bring up the highs, I found the highs sounded soft and lacking in overall detail. Removing the peak at 2kHz only helped moderately."
I picked up 108e∑ after it was discontinued; "paper cone" shockingly thin! Have high hopes for night-time low-volume listen, either "20cm backwave bounce" to reinforce 1khz or OB with BSC@1.15khz to flatten 2-4khz peak.
The Markaudio taobao store has audioclips for some drivers. I listened to each and almost all of them have some (different) off-tonality for musical instruments. Interestingly, my subjective impressions of them pretty much agreed with their published FR charts (which I checked only after auditioning). One nice exception being A5.3 which I then bought new (in addition to the A5.2 TLonken conversion).
Both were recommended by planet10. Orz
The Markaudio taobao store has audioclips for some drivers. I listened to each and almost all of them have some (different) off-tonality for musical instruments. Interestingly, my subjective impressions of them pretty much agreed with their published FR charts (which I checked only after auditioning). One nice exception being A5.3 which I then bought new (in addition to the A5.2 TLonken conversion).
Both were recommended by planet10. Orz
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yeah, since i have the dam FE108e∑, ill build a speaker with it rather then lose money on it. but that 1khz dip is pathetic. the FE108es needs to be used over 1khz.
so what im building right now is 2 different pair of 2 ways, but with the same 1st order 1.2khz xo point
1- 12BR70+ FE108w∑ 1st order xo at 1.2 kHz
2- 12BR70+ Planar 1st order xo at 1.2 kHz
should be interesting to compare frankly
so what im building right now is 2 different pair of 2 ways, but with the same 1st order 1.2khz xo point
1- 12BR70+ FE108w∑ 1st order xo at 1.2 kHz
2- 12BR70+ Planar 1st order xo at 1.2 kHz
should be interesting to compare frankly
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...well you could give FE108SS-HP a try, that is if you're in the US, Madisound is running a sale on 108SS-HP for $189 each
SS on sale in China too, just 20% more than the eSigma. But my 2023 budget got totally blown rescuing disadvantaged F200A (missing small piece of faceplate) and W300AII (re-glued dustcap). At least I will get to compare them blems against their good mates -- perhaps a learning experience.
Thanks.
Because of Joseph Crowe's negative subject review, I kind of hesitant. And I have too many drivers of this size.
(https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...ormance-evaluation-an-imd-perspective.389247/)
Another competitor is Kartesian's Wib120_vHE, I can get Wib120 for slightly lower price in Canada, and I like Kartesian's design approach a little more.
@racingpht you appear to have a bias toward French wideband drivers. €179.04 a piece or $390 USD for a stereo pair Kartesian Wib120_vHE isn't cheep. Puts them in the Mark Audio MAOP 7 range price wise.
MAOP 7 is a known entity around here, Kartesian Wib120_vHE is not. Does P10 or Wooden even have a specific box plan for Kartesian Wib120_vHE?
MAOP 7 is a known entity around here, Kartesian Wib120_vHE is not. Does P10 or Wooden even have a specific box plan for Kartesian Wib120_vHE?
They have box plan. check TLHP. I can't say I recommend Kartesian, because I didn't hear them yet. But what I appreciate is their more scientific approach of designing drivers.
I'm no stranger to Foxtex drivers, too. having FF85wk and FE103SOL, and a few more. But I feel that they seems developing drivers in a "artisan" way, seems mostly based on listening tests of their own, with trial and error, based on some plausible theories such as "bigger magnet is better" "this wire diameter sounds better", ignoring modern tools such as constant BL(x), etc even though they clearly have Klippel. Their UDR surround seems similar concept to Purifi, but the execution is miles behind with a funny hole in the critical midrange in FE108e∑ and some more. I think a few older members still remember the FE138ES-R story with Dave. That's a text book horrible artisan driver in my opinion.
Oh I also have FE168NS, and I think it's a fine driver with light, detailed sound, and measures very well.
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I'm not familiar with the Kartesian units other than an occasional glance, but don't read anything other than artes longae, vita brevis into the fact that I haven't done anything for them. That said, I did just have a quick waffle over to their site, and judging from some of what's there, I can't honestly say I find their 'more scientific' way of designing drive units 'more scientific' than a lot of others. Not knocking in that sense, nor necessarily suggesting any other company is necessarily 'better' (or 'worse' for that matter) on this, but there's plenty of rather questionable remarks. Pulling two from a single section:
That's just a couple, & as noted, without in any way knocking the product per se, I'd be a bit careful about necessarily taking statements entirely at face value, or without some mild (but fair) critique.
Which with my generous hat on & limiting it to the highly specific context referred to, is -excessive. Sometimes some damping is in fact beneficial -especially since 'fidelity weakness' isn't defined. And
Hmm. Depends what you call 'close to 20KHz' and a 'typical ceramic dome'. For instance, I'm eyeballing a couple which don't have their main modes until (a frankly well-controlled) 25KHz and a high Q 35KHz, respectively.
That's just a couple, & as noted, without in any way knocking the product per se, I'd be a bit careful about necessarily taking statements entirely at face value, or without some mild (but fair) critique.
Curious, where do you see these stuff?
Honestly, I think it's not the right place to discuss other drivers. But my "scientific" comments are based on, there's very few companies publish Klippel test and distortion results as product spec, and Kartesian is one of them, that should be welcomed by the community(even though their result is not really special other than KMS(x)). Fostex sometimes don't even give xmax.
If anyone's interested, you can google translate FE108ss' designer's comments. I read all of them before I post my comments.
https://note.com/fostex/n/na130a33a2906
https://note.com/fostex/n/n1590f829e9d5
https://note.com/fostex/n/n48ef98540e9a
https://note.com/fostex/n/na29b3a299c99