You seem to be excusing him for not recognizing that he doesn't know all that can ever be known about the subject. Excuse him if you want, but its a human bias to be overconfident, to look for evidence that confirms prior beliefs, and to form firm conclusions in error because of not allowing for unknowns. That's my try at explaining a complex subject in a few words. I stand by my opinion that he showed himself to be human.
You seem to be jumping to conclusions to fit your narrative here.
Lord Kelvin was well known to be a grumpy curmugeon who disliked journalists in his later years and, at the point of that interview petrol engines were underpowered and unreliable, so I feel his position was valid from the data available to him. Over the next 10 years there was an incredible improvement in otto cycle engines that made the zeppelins feasible.
Now how does this all relate to overpriced boutique capacitors and measuring them?
Lord Kelvin was well known to be a grumpy curmugeon who disliked journalists in his later years and, at the point of that interview petrol engines were underpowered and unreliable, so I feel his position was valid from the data available to him. Over the next 10 years there was an incredible improvement in otto cycle engines that made the zeppelins feasible.
Now how does this all relate to overpriced boutique capacitors and measuring them?
A safe bet capturing all incorrect 'knowledge' statements since the origins of writing.
Boutique caps? Some are junk and some are great. What makes them different? Other people have already explained it has to with construction, materials, processing, etc. How does one measure every little thing, each one in isolation from all the others? IMHO if we knew that we wouldn't need to do listening tests.
SO WHAT?
He was a Physicist, "best of 19th Century" by most accounts, and a very practical Engineer.
Practical working everywhere motors were Steam Engines.
HP/KW per pound was ludicrous, and impossible to lift in a balloon, even worse for fixed wing airplanes which were not yet invented.
Let alone hanging a sparks firing (remember, coal powered) furnace and boiler under an Hydrogen filled silk skin balloon.
Most important: he never said it was "physically impossible" s in defying Kaws of Pbhysics, simply that it was not practical.
Obviously true, and obviously, "at the time".
I can not believe the depths to which Science Deniers and True Believers will sink to "disprove" Scientific Fact.
By the way, feel free to answer from your Nuclear Powered cellphone.
Oh .... "not possible?" ...... "not such a thing?" ...... same thing 😉
You needn´t measure every tiny bit by itself, that´s nonsense; all you need is to measure the full working cap as an unit.
Again and self quoting: "I can not believe ..... "
Who is a science denier? It is not a scientific fact Kelvin was human? Billshurv said more critical things about Kelvin's 'grumpy curmugeon' personality than any observation about his humanity on my part. Why don't you complain to Bill?
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Really? Isn't exactly what we do, measure capacitance, ESR, ESL, voltage coefficient, dielectric leakage, etc.? Every little thing is separated according to our human mental models based on idealized circuit elements. Now you want to measure all that stuff lumped into one number or something? That would be real nonsense.
EDIT: Regarding a nuclear powered cellphone, can't say its impossible. Might be heavier to carry around than my current phone, but the power source might last longer. Who knows, maybe they already exist in Navy submarines. Maybe they can make a cell call using nuclear power.
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Annoyingly so! I think the science museum has one of his mirror galvanometers used for transatlantic telegraph.
I did some checking. The first Zeppelin flight was 1900 and had 14HP engines, one of which failed after 6km and basically stalled the development of rigid airships. It was a few years before Maybach managed to make some better engines. So based on the evidence available at the time of the interview it was pretty impractical.
And how is a boutique capacitor 'better' in any of those parameters. And how do we get from that to the gushing prose here https://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html where for example
The perfect capacitor is just C with no parasitics. These don't exist so we live with the issues. An Engineer will model these and work around them. A hobbyist it would seem reads the reviews and believes they must sound different. A high end speaker designer has to be seen to be playing along and using boutique parts or will lose credibility even if they don't actually believe in magic parts. I fear the horse has bolted.
Personally if I need a foil cap I'd stick with the brand who make the most. Process control is everything and the more you make the more tightly controlled the process should be. My irrational choice unbacked by listening tests and I would not recommend anyone to believe me or follow my lead.
Personally, I like the 'sound' of fake caps............ when they explode and leave a mess.
Now you are CHEATING, changing the movie script.
You were NOT talking about " capacitance, ESR, ESL, voltage coefficient, dielectric leakage" before, which are PARAMETERS but,let me quote yourself:
a very different thing ..... unless you actually can´t see the difference between cause and effect, (which is even worse).
To make it easier for you:
It is NOT the same to say:
* "this tweeter has excellent frequency response because it reaches (measured) 20kHz within 1 dB (Physicist/Engineer reasoning which I also follow)
than:
* "this Tweeter has excellent frequency response because [it was made by JBL]/[is made out of Beryllium]/[was Cryotreated in 99.999% pure liquid Helium] (pick one or more)"
If you can´t see the difference, it´s not worth keeping this up, we speak different languages.
Jo Brother, we aren't in the Falkland Island war anymore, try to keep your strong emotions out of my thread please...
It appears to me that you are yourself your greatest stakeholder.
Again, here the facts about your profile in this forum:
over 11.000 messages but only two threads opened on your own in over 6 years... so what do you want from me? - just do me one favor and stay out of the thread with your pointless contributions
Just as some other more non emotional responding dudes in this forum pointed out the thread is about comments about the capacitor measurement thread of the ASR forum and about listening tests of A /B comparison of crossovers with different grades of capacitors, many thanks in advance for your understanding and best regards
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Why commenting an other forum here? Why not there?
Are there better engineers here or whats the deal?
//
Are there better engineers here or whats the deal?
//
Have you seen what happens at the other forum to those who post about hearing audible differences despite measurements 😉
My executive summary of the outcome so far is the following:
even though the item is interesting there are too many other posts around with too many opinions and not enough proven facts like measurements or explanations of results of A / B comparisons listening tests. I realized just some minutes ago that i have an account for the Audio Science Review forum - i remember now i have made a first attempt to get a response about a very precise technical question about an audio amplifier and never get one - so i gave up the ASR Forum a while ago already. In my eyes there would be good if the manufacturer of high-grade audio capacitors like Duelund, Jantzen and Mundorf would conduct some serious A / B comparison listening tests (only the manufacturer has the hands on the test probes without the need to spend a small fortune to get them). I would think about a very simple environment like a stereo setup with a two-way active crossover where the listening test is about if there is a difference between active crossover bypassed capacitor - active crossover and high-grade capacitor for protection and standard capacitor for protection. There is a good chance to compensate the difference between no capacitor and protection capacitor in the signal path of the tweeter by changing the active part of the tweeter crossover so that the complete transfer function between active crossover with protection capacitor and active crossover with bypassed capacitor remains the same. I have tried something similar with e very sensitive compression driver + horn combination and i am really not sure if there was a difference between the Standard Z-Cap Jantzen 3.3 uF and the Superior Jantzen 3.3 uF capacitor, i would have needed to introduce a double pole toggle switch to compare decently. Beside the outcome of this the fact remain that if you have decided to dedicate so much time for your audio hobby may be 50 Euro of difference between the high-grade capacitor and the standard capacitor is not the key issue, it depends very well about the budget of the whole DIY project. My decision for the future is definitely to go for the activation of the loudspeakers using DSP crossovers for development of the correct setup and then rebuild the crossover with analog circuits and the finalized values of Xo and PEQ's with some high-grade circuit like the analog active crossover stuff of the guru Nelson Pass avoiding all the problems that you have for instance with the Hypex plate amps with the lack of an analog volume level control synchronized for each channel between the D/A section after the DSP and the class D amplifier.
Many thanks for the interest about this thread and kind regards,
Stefano
even though the item is interesting there are too many other posts around with too many opinions and not enough proven facts like measurements or explanations of results of A / B comparisons listening tests. I realized just some minutes ago that i have an account for the Audio Science Review forum - i remember now i have made a first attempt to get a response about a very precise technical question about an audio amplifier and never get one - so i gave up the ASR Forum a while ago already. In my eyes there would be good if the manufacturer of high-grade audio capacitors like Duelund, Jantzen and Mundorf would conduct some serious A / B comparison listening tests (only the manufacturer has the hands on the test probes without the need to spend a small fortune to get them). I would think about a very simple environment like a stereo setup with a two-way active crossover where the listening test is about if there is a difference between active crossover bypassed capacitor - active crossover and high-grade capacitor for protection and standard capacitor for protection. There is a good chance to compensate the difference between no capacitor and protection capacitor in the signal path of the tweeter by changing the active part of the tweeter crossover so that the complete transfer function between active crossover with protection capacitor and active crossover with bypassed capacitor remains the same. I have tried something similar with e very sensitive compression driver + horn combination and i am really not sure if there was a difference between the Standard Z-Cap Jantzen 3.3 uF and the Superior Jantzen 3.3 uF capacitor, i would have needed to introduce a double pole toggle switch to compare decently. Beside the outcome of this the fact remain that if you have decided to dedicate so much time for your audio hobby may be 50 Euro of difference between the high-grade capacitor and the standard capacitor is not the key issue, it depends very well about the budget of the whole DIY project. My decision for the future is definitely to go for the activation of the loudspeakers using DSP crossovers for development of the correct setup and then rebuild the crossover with analog circuits and the finalized values of Xo and PEQ's with some high-grade circuit like the analog active crossover stuff of the guru Nelson Pass avoiding all the problems that you have for instance with the Hypex plate amps with the lack of an analog volume level control synchronized for each channel between the D/A section after the DSP and the class D amplifier.
Many thanks for the interest about this thread and kind regards,
Stefano
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Perhaps the best (most neutral) sounding audio caps are made by a manufacturer you haven't heard of. Michael Percy is the only retail source I know of: https://www.percyaudio.com/Catalog.pdf
The caps I have in mind are MultiCap Film & Foil Polystyrene (RTX). There a couple of now expired patents that describe part of what is involved in making them. Please see attached if interested.
The caps I have in mind are MultiCap Film & Foil Polystyrene (RTX). There a couple of now expired patents that describe part of what is involved in making them. Please see attached if interested.
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Couple of things
1. Once a thread is created it's not yours. If it goes down the plug hole so be it.
2. You are getting close to ad hominem (we all do it sometimes) argue the point not the person.
We reap what we sow, but you are right - in general especially in these hard times we should try to be more relaxed in something like such a forum - it is nice to have but all the things here are not really crucial for human existence, of course
P.S.: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem - just for other people like me without a master's degree in literature
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