Oops. You're absolutely right. My bad! 100Hz?! That is astonishing Good food for thought though.. I will read the thread! Thanks!
A $9000 open baffle speaker designed by arguably the best regarded open baffle designer was bested by a $150 Behringer:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/linkwitz-orions-beaten-by-behringer-what.177403/
And both were beaten by a dude who's been catching flak since the 90s for making speakers based on the Bose 901
I bought the Behringers based on that thread, and they've wound up being the longest lasting speaker in my arsenal. I've tried 10+ different speakers, the Behringers keep winding up back in my living room. I'm not 100% certain that they're the "end all / be all" but at their price point and WAF, I'm not aware of anything better. They're also discontinued 🙁
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/linkwitz-orions-beaten-by-behringer-what.177403/
And both were beaten by a dude who's been catching flak since the 90s for making speakers based on the Bose 901
I bought the Behringers based on that thread, and they've wound up being the longest lasting speaker in my arsenal. I've tried 10+ different speakers, the Behringers keep winding up back in my living room. I'm not 100% certain that they're the "end all / be all" but at their price point and WAF, I'm not aware of anything better. They're also discontinued 🙁
I seem to remember that those Behringers were slightly modified (by adding improved internal absorption and beefing up the plastic waveguide) but I may have got my wires crossed here. If so, did you modify your pair?
They put foam in the ports to reduce diffraction
Behringer copied the Genelec original faithfully, and the newer Genelecs moved the port so that it's not right next to the tweeter.
Behringer copied the Genelec original faithfully, and the newer Genelecs moved the port so that it's not right next to the tweeter.
The Linkwitz dipoles were set up, voiced and adapted in room by an expert for expert use. It would be a rare thing for another to be able to make it sound the same, even if they weren't constrained by the time limitations of a review situation.. and also in a different room.
In cases where speakers aren't set up properly, people are sometimes known to fall back onto exaggerated voicing and distortions to cover up imperfections.
I tried to read the original paper but it isn't there. These are very different types of speaker with regard to their requirements.
Just saying.
In cases where speakers aren't set up properly, people are sometimes known to fall back onto exaggerated voicing and distortions to cover up imperfections.
I tried to read the original paper but it isn't there. These are very different types of speaker with regard to their requirements.
Just saying.
Sure.
https://ariesceratespana.com/pages/symphonia-horn-speakers/
I think I first saw these on a hifi show thread here.
Well, there are many kinds of OBs. Some are ultra stiff baffles. Some models do not have baffles at all, just the driver mounted in other ways.Except for all the time delayed stuff coming from the back of the driver. This drives me to distraction. Vert few OBs are fully dipole so the amount and nature changes from OB to OB.
But i do agree that a simple baffle has some attractions. They just wear off quickly.
These started out OB. But i made them better. https://www.t-linespeakers.org/FALL/2buck.html (over 20 years ago)
No internal airspace resonances (now just free in the room), but a big floppy baffle only that is very hard to make as non-resonate structure wise than a box.
dave
Yesterday i read a review by a Polish reviewer Marek Dyba on Bastanis Wildhorn speakers, they use open back tweeters, and while bass is not OB in this model, Marek wrote he puts them in similar league as Hansen Prince (veery expensive,in house drivers, cream of the crop) V2 and his own custom speakers with fieldcoil Voxativ midranges. Rob Bastani of course is of opinion his OB speakers are better than Wildhorn.
Quite a shock that modified Eminence woofer + Greek Gemini tweeter ($40 per unit) produce end result which is of same overall level as uber $$$$ expensive Hansen cabinets with their ultra-advanced driver cones?
In essence, i think OB vs box boils down to this:
We have simple physics: 1) hard to replace big displacement , 2) box and their walls are freakin problematic
On the other hand you can fight these two facts using very sophisticated cabinets, small cones with diamonds and tantalum....
But .... at what cost?
How about making a bass cabinet out of Alum. Wheel Rims? These are very rigid ! And not expensive. and no parallel walls
Quite a shock that modified Eminence woofer + Greek Gemini tweeter ($40 per unit) produce end result which is of same overall level as uber $$$$ expensive Hansen cabinets with their ultra-advanced driver cones?
In essence, i think OB vs box boils down to this:
We have simple physics: 1) hard to replace big displacement , 2) box and their walls are freakin problematic
On the other hand you can fight these two facts using very sophisticated cabinets, small cones with diamonds and tantalum....
But .... at what cost?
How about making a bass cabinet out of Alum. Wheel Rims? These are very rigid ! And not expensive. and no parallel walls
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What is problematic about speaker cabinets? If you learn the physics (the real physics not audiophile fantasy physics) then it is relatively straightforward to make the sound radiated from a cabinet inaudible in level. Similarly if you learn the physics of drivers (the real physics not audiophile fantasy physics) there is no engineering need to use exotic materials. There is of course a significant marketing/sales need in many cases but that is separate from the engineering requirements for high fidelity sound.
Yes! 😉
I like baffle-less OBs because there's no woodwork, no metalwork, no nuthin'. Just electronics, and even that can be plug and play. Plus they sound good - no chance of nasty smearing or resonances (other than those pesky cone effects).
But they're an, er, acquired taste, visually, and room-placement-wise. And for that reason they're mostly for diy enthusiasts, unless you count planar speakers, like Quad electrostatics, which have the extra advantage of zero cone-effects.
This.
There's also lots of ways of constructing an enclosure, not just a hollow, resonant box.
And besides some hard audiophiles, the big disadvantages are:
1. Open design - so visible cables, all back of the drivers and so on, so additional playground for home animals and children
2. It's far easier to clean a box from the dust than 10 things and shapes in OB
1. Open design - so visible cables, all back of the drivers and so on, so additional playground for home animals and children
2. It's far easier to clean a box from the dust than 10 things and shapes in OB
Market application failure.
OBs and panels need a lot of room real estate to work well and besides the few people with dedicated rooms, they don't work well in the majority of domestic environments.