Sure, lots of apple policies are directly contrary to the values Linux was founded on. But under the GUI and price tags is the exact same system, and it's very accessible if you know how. At the least, it's a comfortable suite to SSH from, making my maintenance, and ultimately personal machine an "it just works" platform. Which is all I'd need from that. I just don't think of Linux as being for people in the way Windows or Mac are. It serves other computers.
I love that people think that Apple or Google invented the app store when it's been a free service on Deb forever. The only differences are a vastly improved GUI and a paywall/approval system-- AKA corporate interests. Validated repositories are so much better than google searching for plugins and apps.
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CUPS installs another printer together with mine but it gives error message when I try to configure it... It seems to be a problem with 22.04 LTS release. Since I made it to work with the previous, I'm OK. It's supported for one more year. Then we'll see.
Hardware is ready for Win10/11. I would go for that if I needed for intensive use. I just think MS demands too much for my requirements... Writing command lines on the terminal for starters is mostly copy and paste since everything can be found on the internet. And I already can follow the basics.
For me absolutely true. And knowing nothing about how the computer works ultimately seems to translate into a lack of responsibility - for example many never think of how much energy a Google query needs just because they don't know that all those zeros and ones inside a computer are voltage levels and current...
Is it really so? What about the cost of the licenses for all the software needed to operate even a small company? And why not have the typical office run on Linux?
OK, specialized software often calls for the native OS it best runs on, but that was not the topic of this thread as far as I understood...
A legal so official W10 OEM licence costs 25 Euro when one looks sharp at offers on the web. I have one in front of me.
Both 32 and 64 bit OEM in any language. If you want it send me a PM. Problem solved.
I am a Mac user but since XP Windows simply works OK. It is Linux that is more troublesome in practice, certainly with hardware support. Also one needs to depend on geeks for support, not my cup of tea.
(Never thought I would defend Windows but here you are).
Both 32 and 64 bit OEM in any language. If you want it send me a PM. Problem solved.
I am a Mac user but since XP Windows simply works OK. It is Linux that is more troublesome in practice, certainly with hardware support. Also one needs to depend on geeks for support, not my cup of tea.
(Never thought I would defend Windows but here you are).
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Yes that would certainly be OK for a private user.
But if you hire an MS certified agent to care about the typical environment needed in a small office (Windows, Office, Exchange, backups, updates, VPN, laptops, printers) you look at some more cost.
And even a private user with the usual software packages (Office, Adobe, etc....) faces more than some 25 Euros per year.
This is off topic, sorry, I just was pondering on the comment about bad business decisions in regard to Linux...
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Funny how this thread goes. Not very focused, but certainly a lot better than a DIY HiFi discussion would work out on a Linux forum 🙂
If a private user wants to go from A to B in a straight and relatively low cost line then there are possibilities. Apart from the 25 Euro W10 license there is the free Libreoffice for instance. There is quite some free software that works OK.
It can be done for 0 Euro per year and it should be like that for private users. Of course that is not what those US companies want with their fancy subscription models but who is the boss in your home? Simply refuse the "terminal" like web connected model* and monthly fees. Just say NO.
* your smart phone monthly fee, the Internet providers monthly fee, Netflix, Hulu, Prime, Disney and whatever they are all called for TV with their monthly fees. Spotify, Deezer, Tidal etc. for music and also monthly fees. Then also MS office that wants a monthly fee? How is one supposed to pay the mortgage/rent, gas for the car, groceries and the energy/water bills with such monthly fees?! I tell you.. except for the first 2 items I pay 0, nil, nothing, nada. No obligations, no forced watching advertisements, no hidden ongoing costs and less to spend on useful stuff, just freedom.
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I was responding to your post about time spent fixing windows vs time learning linux. Budget was never mentioned. In any case, the biggest reason for not using linux on desktop is that most typical offices need word, excel and the like. And I would hate to have to fight with libre office and clients because of some unsupported feature or formatting (been there done that).
An office 365 license costs 10 bucks per seat per month and covers almost everything. If you cannot afford that, you have bigger problems to worry about as a business.
As for the server side, if you need MS, then you need MS. It's not like a business that is fighting with budget is going to pay to re-write a legacy app. A small server's license is far cheaper. If you are starting from scratch, then yeah 100% go linux. Even MS stuff now work 100% with .net core and the like.
Why would a small office hire an agent to do simple stuff? Again, office 365 is like 10 bucks per month per seat. That's peanuts even for a small office. For a private user that does not have to worry about compatibility with his clients' files, then yeah no issue if your software is
supported.
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I had to laugh when I read your post. Ubuntu IS a Debian based distro:
https://ubuntu.com/community/debian
OK, sure, I guess. Conversely not everyone who uses Ubuntu likes Debian. Me for one. And ???
I was just pointing out the irony in freddi's statement. I found that kind of funny! It was more about the underlying logic than a statement about either distro.
The average office worker does rarely use unsupported formatting or features: my experience is that most files were perfectly fine with MSO97 file formats, and all the error messages about incompatibility come from files being saved in recent MSO versions. Even my 3 year old Android phone struggles to display Mails, Docs and Excel sheets correctly unless I install a bunch of otherwise unnecessary apps. I can handle that, but most buy a new device (and as everybody knows buying a new smartphone every few years [or printer for that matter] is one of the reasons why the planet is in serious trouble).
Because the average office assistent would not be able to even make a clean backup of the daily work let alone install and maintain the software for say a 5 desk network...
Somebody mentioned business decisions iirc...
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Yep exactly. Many users, especially in bigger companies will have the latest versions, using fancy formatting. Especially people working for the government love their fancy formatting. No matter how cringey it can be. And they have 0 patience and -10 tech knowledge. As for features, if you are even remotely related to finance or any kind of inventory, you are going to see weird pivots and weird lookups. It works until it doesn't. And the embarrassment when it doesn't is not worth the 10 bucks per user per month that you are saving not using Office 365. And don't get me started on the lobbying that google and M$ are doing for email delivery, making running your own mail servers an endless struggle.
This is true no matter if they have linux or windows though. And the MSP cost is going to swamp the windows licenses anyway
A bit like how the the development of Linux (distros) goes. Or rather the result of a scattered infrastructure 😀 😀 😀 lol
I couldn't disagree more. Especially the better distros out there DO have a focus.
Thanks!
But that makes me even more convinced to not support MS... Most of the non-compatible files I receive carry unimportant content, but hey, the fancy formatting does make up for it 🙈🙈🙈
The issue is not the distros, the issue is that every fart is developed and maintained by someone else.
Which is the core concept of Linux by itself.
In most cases they also expect that people magically know and understand all of that.
It's like having an issue with your car and you have to somehow (often magically) find/know and call the software developer for your navigation system and fix it all by yourself kind of thing.
In my eyes the distro should have the responsibility for taking care of this. Yes, EVEN when it's "free" (things are never free btw)
Linus from Linus techtips described this particular issue pretty well in a couple of videos they made about this imo.
It's mess of everyone on his own little island, as soon as people are unhappy things are being ported and a new little island is created.
Again in the big picture, there is NO focus.
Anyway, I have been using linux for about 25 years now, and it looks like that got a lot worse especially on the desktop side.
It works very well for servers and embedded systems, but desktops is just a mess.
Unless you (magically) have the time, energy and willingness to almost non-stop trouble shoot the most simple things.
I used several distros on a couple of my main systems for 5-8 years, went back to Win because of the countless weekends and late evenings I lost for fixing things again and again.
Just keep it to servers and embedded systems.
I prefer audio discussions, because in that case I can refer to scientific literature and data.
Linux discussions always ends up in a negative spiral were nobody listens to each other and only anecdotal personal preferences seem to used only.
I expect (and predict) this is gonna be a similar discussion as well, not very interesting tbh.
fyi, hardware support is still a big hit or miss as well.