Was wondering if there is a thread with a list of members (or others) that offer crossover design service? I looked but did not see one. It may be helpful to someone like myself that is new that can pay someone to do design work.
I'm wondering why you wouldn't ask someone here to do it with you? What level of crossover are we talking here?
Hi Allen
Nearly everyone on the board are very helpful, I think it is just me feeling I've "worn out the welcome mat" lol. Ive managed to be criticized for my lack of knowledge ugh.I know a lot of the basics, but as I like to say "I know just enough to be dangerous". I have been collaborating with others on another thread for my speaker. Someone gave the the SB Rinjani XO so I will be revising my XO. My 2 way Satori build is still not right and I have some guidance and will move forward with the suggestions. I do appreciate all the help hoping to learn and improve my skills.
Nearly everyone on the board are very helpful, I think it is just me feeling I've "worn out the welcome mat" lol. Ive managed to be criticized for my lack of knowledge ugh.I know a lot of the basics, but as I like to say "I know just enough to be dangerous". I have been collaborating with others on another thread for my speaker. Someone gave the the SB Rinjani XO so I will be revising my XO. My 2 way Satori build is still not right and I have some guidance and will move forward with the suggestions. I do appreciate all the help hoping to learn and improve my skills.
Happy to do it, but with a caveat: I'll need decent measurements of your drivers in your cabinets.
Chris
Chris
@ jimbones, well that's not good.
We're all at different levels. You know, a part of me wants to introduce three dimensional crossovers, and the acoustic design that goes with them.. but that's not where everyone is at, and that's not their problem.
My martial arts master would take us back to basics every session.. without that we get soft. If someone can't appreciate helping someone who is learning, then maybe they would be better served spending their time with the big boys 😉
We're all at different levels. You know, a part of me wants to introduce three dimensional crossovers, and the acoustic design that goes with them.. but that's not where everyone is at, and that's not their problem.
My martial arts master would take us back to basics every session.. without that we get soft. If someone can't appreciate helping someone who is learning, then maybe they would be better served spending their time with the big boys 😉
Putting myself in the op shoes, one can have a difficult time to know where to beginn to push the things futher than the "filter without measurement" from the sticky section. Ok, it's a puzzle at reading meany threads but it's easy to loose oneself in the understanding by making a sum of them.
Deserve a" how to process acurate measurements" sticky ? Step to step one ?
The harder seems often to me how to proceed to take right measurements of the drivers in box w/o filter :
Where to put the mic? , how far, what height, with what soft (REW, Holm Impulse, Vitruix, ...) which driver to take first as a phase reference zero point to know the time phase offset of the other drivers, how to calculate the distance around the crossover frequency number to align mechanicaly the depth of the drivers, if not using only electric phase in the crossover, etc and so on.
Do one should choose the pic of the top of impulse response fot time alignement before the crossover or after ? Or take the beginning of the impulse instead ?
Then, how export a .frd file, proceed to a phase tracking, in soft like Vitruix or Xsim or else for filter simulations, etc. Then how to play with the electrical phase concept by choosing an asymetric cut-off of one of the two filters : Low pass output or high pass input, etc, etc ?
Of course for a passive design, active solution having electronic delays while they not save you to proceed to an acurate measurement. (sometimes maybe too simple when took with usb mic that are less precise perhaps than xlr mic with phantom power because of the first clock laptop operation of the USB's then further reclocking in a further hardware? illustation: Jeff Bagby's Pdf about impulse alignement)
Deserve a" how to process acurate measurements" sticky ? Step to step one ?
The harder seems often to me how to proceed to take right measurements of the drivers in box w/o filter :
Where to put the mic? , how far, what height, with what soft (REW, Holm Impulse, Vitruix, ...) which driver to take first as a phase reference zero point to know the time phase offset of the other drivers, how to calculate the distance around the crossover frequency number to align mechanicaly the depth of the drivers, if not using only electric phase in the crossover, etc and so on.
Do one should choose the pic of the top of impulse response fot time alignement before the crossover or after ? Or take the beginning of the impulse instead ?
Then, how export a .frd file, proceed to a phase tracking, in soft like Vitruix or Xsim or else for filter simulations, etc. Then how to play with the electrical phase concept by choosing an asymetric cut-off of one of the two filters : Low pass output or high pass input, etc, etc ?
Of course for a passive design, active solution having electronic delays while they not save you to proceed to an acurate measurement. (sometimes maybe too simple when took with usb mic that are less precise perhaps than xlr mic with phantom power because of the first clock laptop operation of the USB's then further reclocking in a further hardware? illustation: Jeff Bagby's Pdf about impulse alignement)
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+1 to what Allen said. That's not good; I'm sorry you should have experienced that. There is no welcome mat to wear out here, or shouldn't be: the purpose of the forum is for people interested in this hobby to discuss matters of mutual interest & help each other.
Anyway -like Chris (and I'm sure many others), happy to do so, but good quality measurements of the drivers mounted in the cabinet are needed, preferably on & off axis.
If you can't do that, then there are several alternatives, assuming you have drive units from a reputable manufacturer who supplies reasonable data. They aren't as good / optimal, but they'll get you started and should give results from adequate to decent. It's better to have reasonable sound than none.
First approach is Allen's XO without measurements thread, which is self-explanatory & should be default reading even if you don't necessarily adopt that method as you'll learn a lot from it. The other is to use the manufacturer FR & impedance data, trace it, simulate diffraction & step-loss & splice those into the anechoic data, extract minimum-phase and use that as the basis for the design. I stress this is not optimum, but like the XO without measurement thread, it can give decent results -enough to get you going until such time as you want to invest in some measurement gear (the time is probably more 'expensive' than the gear needs to be).
Anyway -like Chris (and I'm sure many others), happy to do so, but good quality measurements of the drivers mounted in the cabinet are needed, preferably on & off axis.
If you can't do that, then there are several alternatives, assuming you have drive units from a reputable manufacturer who supplies reasonable data. They aren't as good / optimal, but they'll get you started and should give results from adequate to decent. It's better to have reasonable sound than none.
First approach is Allen's XO without measurements thread, which is self-explanatory & should be default reading even if you don't necessarily adopt that method as you'll learn a lot from it. The other is to use the manufacturer FR & impedance data, trace it, simulate diffraction & step-loss & splice those into the anechoic data, extract minimum-phase and use that as the basis for the design. I stress this is not optimum, but like the XO without measurement thread, it can give decent results -enough to get you going until such time as you want to invest in some measurement gear (the time is probably more 'expensive' than the gear needs to be).
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Hi Jimbones,
Sorry to hear that you felt unwelcome. I’ll be happy to help as well for a 2 way speaker if you can provide measurements of woofer, tweeter, and combined without touching the speaker, mic, or anything other than wires to connect them. Convert measurements to .FRD files. Get impedance sweeps of each with a DATS or similar and provide .ZMA files. Measurements should be with calibrated mic at 0.5m on axis with driver of your choice (most people use tweeter, but sometimes woofer on top gives better time alignment). Use an AC voltmeter to set sweep at 2.0Vrms so that we have equivalent 2.83Vrms at 1m. 1m is too far and you get floor bounce. Once you have the data, put it into your Xsim file and post the file and supporting .FRD’s and .ZMA’s. We can then all iteratively help you with the XO design. We are all learning and there is no excuse for some members to make you feel unwelcome.
Cheers,
X
Sorry to hear that you felt unwelcome. I’ll be happy to help as well for a 2 way speaker if you can provide measurements of woofer, tweeter, and combined without touching the speaker, mic, or anything other than wires to connect them. Convert measurements to .FRD files. Get impedance sweeps of each with a DATS or similar and provide .ZMA files. Measurements should be with calibrated mic at 0.5m on axis with driver of your choice (most people use tweeter, but sometimes woofer on top gives better time alignment). Use an AC voltmeter to set sweep at 2.0Vrms so that we have equivalent 2.83Vrms at 1m. 1m is too far and you get floor bounce. Once you have the data, put it into your Xsim file and post the file and supporting .FRD’s and .ZMA’s. We can then all iteratively help you with the XO design. We are all learning and there is no excuse for some members to make you feel unwelcome.
Cheers,
X
At Scott and Xrq : do you realize he is starting perhaps from scratch and what you said is already too much complicated and not didactic enough (see my post above)
@Scottmoose
"but good quality measurements of the drivers mounted in the cabinet are needed, preferably on & off axis."
Are you saying do Fr sweeps sans XO of each individual driver? I can do that. Although I have done off axis measurements I have not done a complete set (15, 30,45,60 degrees)
Tools I have are OMNI Mic V2 with calibrated Mic, and DATS V3. I have been using XSIM as it seems easy to use but I have Vitux and PCD? (Bagby)
"but good quality measurements of the drivers mounted in the cabinet are needed, preferably on & off axis."
Are you saying do Fr sweeps sans XO of each individual driver? I can do that. Although I have done off axis measurements I have not done a complete set (15, 30,45,60 degrees)
Tools I have are OMNI Mic V2 with calibrated Mic, and DATS V3. I have been using XSIM as it seems easy to use but I have Vitux and PCD? (Bagby)
We can rewind as far back as needed. I am just stating what the requirements are for a good start with almost no more info needed.
Basic equipment to get started:
1. Get a calibrated mic and mic stand ($60-$100)
2. Get a cheap SPL meter ($20), you probably have a DMM already for Vrms
3. Get a DATS or other impedance measuring tool ($100) or DIY with REW
4. Get a USB sound interface for connecting mic and amp and speakers ($40 to $100)
5. Download and install REW (free)
6. Download and install Xsim (free)
Basic equipment to get started:
1. Get a calibrated mic and mic stand ($60-$100)
2. Get a cheap SPL meter ($20), you probably have a DMM already for Vrms
3. Get a DATS or other impedance measuring tool ($100) or DIY with REW
4. Get a USB sound interface for connecting mic and amp and speakers ($40 to $100)
5. Download and install REW (free)
6. Download and install Xsim (free)
Yes indeed. Since you mention you're using Omnimic, I suggest you follow Jeff's method outlined here as far as possible: http://audio.claub.net/software/FRD...curate In-Room Frequency Response to 10Hz.pdf -it's a bit involved as he's also talking about splicing (or rather, blending) near & farfield measurements -assuming it's a 2-way you're designing though, the part that will be of primary interest for you at this stage is the section on farfield measures. Read it all anyway -Jeff was one of the best multiway designers around & is greatly missed.
For off-axis measurements, ensure the microphone position remains static on the listening axis & rotate the speaker itself. Note that you can create a good speaker using on-axis measurements alone; however, if you want to push it to something even better, off-axis measurements are invaluable.
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#4 item are cheap : around 100 bucks with phantom power included on the XLR input and it also gives youu more room and precision for impulse responses (loopback). if youe internal sounding card has its own clock not derived from the mother computer pcb then it's ok too (while more noiser cause the power supplies of the computer that are noisy)
Second hand external USB sound cards from EMI for instance !
Second hand external USB sound cards from EMI for instance !
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Madisound offers crossover design services. Danny at GR Research will even test and design a crossover to fit application if you send him the box and drivers.
I'm in the same boat as @jimbones. I watched some vidoes about design software and downloaded Xsim. Again, I learned the basics of XSim via Youtube. I've beenpracticing with the FRD and ZMA files on Dayton drivers since they're always included on the Parts Express website.
I have a mic, a DSP, a DATS II, and A DATS III. My next step is measuring. I have a few questions now, but will post or message someone later so I don't hijack this thread. I appriciate those of you who are patient with those of us with far less knowledge.
Thanks,
Mike
I have a mic, a DSP, a DATS II, and A DATS III. My next step is measuring. I have a few questions now, but will post or message someone later so I don't hijack this thread. I appriciate those of you who are patient with those of us with far less knowledge.
Thanks,
Mike