JMFahey,
You presented a rather unfriendly theory loaded with ifs and whens not based on any facts.
When it comes to facts, can you give any plausible explanation how a 22k shunt resistor can influence sound when driven from a very low source resistance and operating in the micro watts?
That’s the point I tried to make in this thread in posting #131.
The OP might have heard subjective differences when changing resistors, but that cannot be used as engraved in stone as a resistor sound quality shootout because first you have to be sure that all surrounding factors have been excluded as possible contributors.
Hans
You presented a rather unfriendly theory loaded with ifs and whens not based on any facts.
When it comes to facts, can you give any plausible explanation how a 22k shunt resistor can influence sound when driven from a very low source resistance and operating in the micro watts?
That’s the point I tried to make in this thread in posting #131.
The OP might have heard subjective differences when changing resistors, but that cannot be used as engraved in stone as a resistor sound quality shootout because first you have to be sure that all surrounding factors have been excluded as possible contributors.
Hans
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Ed, all good (and interesting) points. Can't say I disagree with this, but have one comment.
The standout result from almost all listening tests - this may or may not be the case, but even if it is the case, you seem to place a lot of trust on those listening test as an objective datum.
I am pretty sure that if you ask people to judge the sound difference between two resistors you hand them, one told to be CC the other MF, they will all come to the same conclusion, independent of what the actual resistors were!
And so it goes.
Jan
"I am pretty sure that if you ask people to judge the sound difference between two resistors you hand them, one told to be CC the other MF, they will all come to the same conclusion, independent of what the actual resistors were!"
Could it be that says more about you than it says about the people you might hand two resistors?
Could it be that says more about you than it says about the people you might hand two resistors?
I dunno. You make up your mind based on your experience and insight. I can't do that for you 😎
Jan
Jan
Correction
The standout result from almost all COMPETENT resistor listening tests...
There was the time I did a switched resistor and the significant result was the switch position number three did sound quite different no matter what resistor was being tested. A brand and type of switch I no longer use!
The standout result from almost all COMPETENT resistor listening tests...
There was the time I did a switched resistor and the significant result was the switch position number three did sound quite different no matter what resistor was being tested. A brand and type of switch I no longer use!
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Ed if you have a database of such competent tests, that would be quite valueable!
Jan
Which Theory?
I am based on Physics, which in due time is based on well proven facts, tested time and again by experiments and which self prove everyday since such facts are used (successfully I might add), to design the working products we use everyday and which surround us.
About 0.001% of Engineers might design based on parts BRAND and SUPPOSED influence on Sound, all others go along the well tried and time/experienced path.
No, because there is none 😀
I can not call that "heard" but "claimed to be heard", a very important difference.
And you are mixing 2 different levels of statements here:
"heard" belongs to the physical world; IF there was a difference which could be heard, then a microphone would also pick it up, and we may analyze it.
"subjective differences" belongs to the mental/psychological world, is impossible to prove so at the same time, is useless as "proof".
Trying to use such a poor and imperfect knowledge as the*only* basis for some affirmation, specially one which runs contrary to established knowledge, which is used everyday all over the World, with great success, only leds to inconclusive 350 post threads which pollute the Forum with zero positive outcome.
NO Amp designer will design a product using such fuzzy unproven "rules" as stated on the first post, .... but of course he might try to MARKET them to the unwary. 😛
Sadly some people fall for it; others simply are Covid bored and come here to talk about "something", anything at all, don´t really care one way or another but find lively discussions time filling, better than watching grass grow.
Of course, a great culprit is that "there is nothing on TV" 😛
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To my mind, hearing is what we perceive, not what a microphone picks up. To use the word "proof", at all, is a red herring, there is plenty of evidence of what people subjectively perceive and it has value in assessing and improving audio reproduction.
I find this confusing. Of course what people perceive is what they say they perceive, there's no doubt there.
I just don't see how such strictly personal, subjective perceptions could be used to guide audio development for the masses (excluding the marketing slant)?
Jan
I just don't see how such strictly personal, subjective perceptions could be used to guide audio development for the masses (excluding the marketing slant)?
Jan
Instead of being so convinced, I came at least with a possible cause, stability problems. There is another thread on this Forum with this opamp that shows exactly this problem.
And a microphone would be a rather poor instrument to detect.
That’s why I suggested to repeat the test with a much slower opamp like the 2134, but you probably missed that posting.
Hans
My listening tests showed me that measurements probably correlate well and are not influenced by other issues like switch contacts.
Also learned some folks can hear the differences and others can’t. Those who can’t find it hard to believe others can. Perhaps an ego thing.
Or simply put... Some care, others don’t and some are clueless.
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Maybe they too readily dismiss the possibilities. There's evidence, for example, that ITD distortions in digital hearing aids can affect speach recognition, in noisy environments. Simply googling ITD distortions brings up many interesting studies.
Because they are meaningless. And anyone who has been in front of a DAW or mixing desk would know it takes quite a lot of frequency shaping and effects to generate that difference. Way more than a simple resistor change on the input.
If he had just listed in order of preference that would have been of more use than pointless wooly words translated from Russian.
If he had just listed in order of preference that would have been of more use than pointless wooly words translated from Russian.
"...anyone who has been in front of a DAW or mixing desk would know it takes quite a lot of frequency shaping and effects to generate that difference..."
I get what you are saying, but the effects audiophiles often obsess over are typically tiny when compared to what can be done in a DAW. Seems like there are not words to describe tiny things in perceptual detail. IME at some point people have to listen in the same room at the same time to understand each other's perceptual vocabulary. For sure its a problem. That said, there still are small differences that maybe only a few people care about.
I get what you are saying, but the effects audiophiles often obsess over are typically tiny when compared to what can be done in a DAW. Seems like there are not words to describe tiny things in perceptual detail. IME at some point people have to listen in the same room at the same time to understand each other's perceptual vocabulary. For sure its a problem. That said, there still are small differences that maybe only a few people care about.
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