I'm looking for 12" PA midbasses (for my car, but will later most likely go in a home theatre).
I want them to take some power, at least 400-600W.
Play rather deep, so I need a rather low Fs and high Xmax.
And good sound quality, maybe some shorting rings, low Mms etc.
Low impedance for car amplifiers that put out a lot at 4 Ohms.
It should play 60-500Hz well.
I have been fascinated over Xmax now for a while.
I don't really know how important it is, but I have understood, if there isn't enough Xmax, they will start to distort.
With these requirements I have found the LaVoce WAF123.03.
I would like a 4Ohm driver, but this has a close enough Re that I could use it.
3" voice coil and 1000W power handling.
97dB sensitivity and rather flat frequency response.
And 7mm of Xmax with still quite low Mms.
50Hz Fs and models relatively good in sealed enclosures.
I will get probably 25-50l in my front door, later I will go ported in my HT.
Does anyone have experience with this driver?
Or do you have some tips for me what to look for or other drivers that are better at around 100€ each?
I want them to take some power, at least 400-600W.
Play rather deep, so I need a rather low Fs and high Xmax.
And good sound quality, maybe some shorting rings, low Mms etc.
Low impedance for car amplifiers that put out a lot at 4 Ohms.
It should play 60-500Hz well.
I have been fascinated over Xmax now for a while.
I don't really know how important it is, but I have understood, if there isn't enough Xmax, they will start to distort.
With these requirements I have found the LaVoce WAF123.03.
I would like a 4Ohm driver, but this has a close enough Re that I could use it.
3" voice coil and 1000W power handling.
97dB sensitivity and rather flat frequency response.
And 7mm of Xmax with still quite low Mms.
50Hz Fs and models relatively good in sealed enclosures.
I will get probably 25-50l in my front door, later I will go ported in my HT.
Does anyone have experience with this driver?
Or do you have some tips for me what to look for or other drivers that are better at around 100€ each?
12" PA midbasses? Lavoce?
I'm looking for 12" PA midbasses (for my car, but will later most likely go in a home theatre).
I want them to take some power, at least 400-600W.
Play rather deep, so I need a rather low Fs and high Xmax.
And good sound quality, maybe some shorting rings, low Mms etc.
Low impedance for car amplifiers that put out a lot at 4 Ohms.
It should play 60-500Hz well.
I have been fascinated over Xmax now for a while.
I don't really know how important it is, but I have understood, if there isn't enough Xmax, they will start to distort.
With these requirements I have found the LaVoce WAF123.03.
I would like a 4Ohm driver, but this has a close enough Re that I could use it.
3" voice coil and 1000W power handling.
97dB sensitivity and rather flat frequency response.
And 7mm of Xmax with still quite low Mms.
50Hz Fs and models relatively good in sealed enclosures.
I will get probably 25-50l in my front door, later I will go ported in my HT.
I use a DSP in the car so active filtering.
Does anyone have experience with this driver?
Or do you have some tips for me what to look for or other drivers that are better at around 100€ each?
I'm looking for 12" PA midbasses (for my car, but will later most likely go in a home theatre).
I want them to take some power, at least 400-600W.
Play rather deep, so I need a rather low Fs and high Xmax.
And good sound quality, maybe some shorting rings, low Mms etc.
Low impedance for car amplifiers that put out a lot at 4 Ohms.
It should play 60-500Hz well.
I have been fascinated over Xmax now for a while.
I don't really know how important it is, but I have understood, if there isn't enough Xmax, they will start to distort.
With these requirements I have found the LaVoce WAF123.03.
I would like a 4Ohm driver, but this has a close enough Re that I could use it.
3" voice coil and 1000W power handling.
97dB sensitivity and rather flat frequency response.
And 7mm of Xmax with still quite low Mms.
50Hz Fs and models relatively good in sealed enclosures.
I will get probably 25-50l in my front door, later I will go ported in my HT.
I use a DSP in the car so active filtering.
Does anyone have experience with this driver?
Or do you have some tips for me what to look for or other drivers that are better at around 100€ each?
Faital 12PR300 is the cheapest 12" I believe. Great driver, but better IMO for a slightly higher freq range and vented alignment. It's at the high end of your price range.
I like the Dayton PA310-8. It's got a lower Fs and heavier cone than most pro midbasses, but with average 5mm Xmax. And it's cheap, but you get a lot for your money IMO. Maybe not in Europe though...
I like the Dayton PA310-8. It's got a lower Fs and heavier cone than most pro midbasses, but with average 5mm Xmax. And it's cheap, but you get a lot for your money IMO. Maybe not in Europe though...
The Faitals model really well, but the mere 2,25mm of Xmax would never be enough for midbass under 150Hz even.
I would much rather take the Daytons, about 100€ each here, but they lose out in spl to the Lavoces I mentioned.
The Lavoces look a lot better built also, even if they are made in China, they are designed in Italy, like Faital.
I would much rather take the Daytons, about 100€ each here, but they lose out in spl to the Lavoces I mentioned.
The Lavoces look a lot better built also, even if they are made in China, they are designed in Italy, like Faital.
Eminence Delta Pro 12A handles 400 W rms with 99 db 1w1m. xmax 4.6 mm qt .35 usable 52 hz-4.2 khz. suitable sealed or vented. $139 to US customers. DELTA PRO-12A - Loudspeakers | Eminence Speaker
Eminence Kappa Pro 12 has 500 w rating but only 97 db 1w1m. xmax 4.8 mm 57-2.8 khz Suitable only for vented boxes. 3" coil instead of 2.5" of delta. $154 to US customers. KAPPA PRO-12A - Loudspeakers | Eminence Speaker
Both are aluminum frame for less flux loss, and alnico magnet for more weight & less cost than neo.
Eminence Kappa Pro 12 has 500 w rating but only 97 db 1w1m. xmax 4.8 mm 57-2.8 khz Suitable only for vented boxes. 3" coil instead of 2.5" of delta. $154 to US customers. KAPPA PRO-12A - Loudspeakers | Eminence Speaker
Both are aluminum frame for less flux loss, and alnico magnet for more weight & less cost than neo.
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As for xmax. It's not something I worry about unless it's very low. You can model it in software to see how loud a speaker will go. Previous speakers I built were about 85db 2.8v 1mtr and would reach their 3mm xmax with only about 7 watts, but they had a very generous excursion capability past xmax, so we're capable of going very loud. Most of the time they would stay within xmax, and only deep, sustained bass notes could cause problems at high volumes. The vocals of London Grammar - Hey now would distort at high volume.
A car has something called cabin gain, where you get a boost at low frequencies because you're listening in a small, relatively sealed box, so you get even more output for your xmax. Road noise does mean you have to turn the volume up higher than if you were in a quiet room though.
I personally wouldn't worry about subwoofer xmax for car use. I'm sure they'd all go loud enough to give you hearing damage.
A car has something called cabin gain, where you get a boost at low frequencies because you're listening in a small, relatively sealed box, so you get even more output for your xmax. Road noise does mean you have to turn the volume up higher than if you were in a quiet room though.
I personally wouldn't worry about subwoofer xmax for car use. I'm sure they'd all go loud enough to give you hearing damage.
For the same price of 160€ I would probably go for the Delta with higher sensitivity.
It models a little different than the lavoce, but not much.
Still 4,6mm Xmax is far less than 7,25mm, at least it looks like it is, as the Delta 12 goes out of Xmax at 50Hz already with 100W, where the Lavoce can do the same at 600W.
I already have Eminence alpha 6cbmra midranges, so Eminence mids could suite well, but I'm unsure.
It models a little different than the lavoce, but not much.
Still 4,6mm Xmax is far less than 7,25mm, at least it looks like it is, as the Delta 12 goes out of Xmax at 50Hz already with 100W, where the Lavoce can do the same at 600W.
I already have Eminence alpha 6cbmra midranges, so Eminence mids could suite well, but I'm unsure.
I will do a 2x15" trunk wall with 8-10kW of power. These will play up to 50-80Hz.
And I do worry about their Xmax as it will be reached quite fast, 27mm is about what I want there.
I'm not going to use the 12" mids as subwoofers, they are going in my front doors and will be used as midbasses. Up to at least 500Hz
I will probably try to get them to play down as low as 50-60Hz.
I've heard many guys say nothing gives a good enough kick, as a PA midbass.
Right now I have 10" PA midbasses in my doors, but they were quite cheap, and I want something with better sound quality, but also something that can keep up with my Eminence Alpha 6cbmra and PRV D280ti front stage.
I know drivers go beyond Xmax, but that creates a lot of distortion and I would like to play as loud as possible without distortion.
This car will be used both for intimate high fidelity listening and playing as a demo car with doors open.
I do know about cabin gain, but it will not be as much from the front doors, especially the left one closest to me.
But it works well enough to bring up a little of the midbass under 100Hz, so that I wouldn't need 60l to get them to play low. I think the volume inside the door is about 50-60l, but I would like to make an enclosure in the door with glass fiber.¨
Those Faitals are good drivers, but a little out of my price range and they have very little Xmax when calculated the "right" way.
And I do worry about their Xmax as it will be reached quite fast, 27mm is about what I want there.
I'm not going to use the 12" mids as subwoofers, they are going in my front doors and will be used as midbasses. Up to at least 500Hz
I will probably try to get them to play down as low as 50-60Hz.
I've heard many guys say nothing gives a good enough kick, as a PA midbass.
Right now I have 10" PA midbasses in my doors, but they were quite cheap, and I want something with better sound quality, but also something that can keep up with my Eminence Alpha 6cbmra and PRV D280ti front stage.
I know drivers go beyond Xmax, but that creates a lot of distortion and I would like to play as loud as possible without distortion.
This car will be used both for intimate high fidelity listening and playing as a demo car with doors open.
I do know about cabin gain, but it will not be as much from the front doors, especially the left one closest to me.
But it works well enough to bring up a little of the midbass under 100Hz, so that I wouldn't need 60l to get them to play low. I think the volume inside the door is about 50-60l, but I would like to make an enclosure in the door with glass fiber.¨
Those Faitals are good drivers, but a little out of my price range and they have very little Xmax when calculated the "right" way.
