Having the TAS3251 board operationnal (NeatAmp), I wondered how it would compare to some other known amplifiers. As a reminder, the TAS3251 is an integrated chip that bring together a TPA3251, a "high-performance Burr-Brown™ DAC" and a DSP. The Input is I2S. The interface between the power part and the DAC is balanced. In my understanding, the best of TI engineers integrated in one chip.
I took the opportunity of a trip to Lyon to liaise with Daniboun, to meet him and compare to its current amplifiers: an Infineo amp and a Aiyima Tilear 2.1 TPA3151 with ELNA caps / OPA1656.
The Infineo amp was connected to an external DAC.
The Aiyima Tilear 2.1 TPA3151 was used with its bluetooth input.
The TAS3251 was fed by a small PCM2706 USB to I2S board (and a basic LED brick before receiving the expected Meanwell 36V 350W power supply).
This maked that the sources were different for the 3 amps.
We listened mainly to Jazz vocals, some drums performance, and some other tracks. We had not so much time available. So we got some first understanding but were not in a position to extensively compare each of the 3 amps with reference tracks. The switch over from one amp to the other, especially with my TAS3251, so we were far fom A/B blind tests. Last, I had not brought my test music, interested in discovering different tracks from Daniboun. It was not my best idea. I really liked the music we listened, for sure, but when you don't know the speakers, have different sources and use different music, you lack some landmarks to associate what you hear to the different components and the sound material. I take precautions about the context because sessions like this are not science, are very subjective, and personnal taste matters a lot in findings, that have to be taken with caution.
All that said, the three amps don't sound the same. I'm bad with analyses and wording my feelings, but here is what I would say.
The Infineon amp is the one we listened the less. For me it had a soundstage more "blurred" than the 2 others. Voice was "larger", taking more space between the 2 speakers. Overal restitution was nice, dynamic with some harmonic richness/warmth. Bus it was not feeling as natural as I would expect.
At the opposite, the TAS3251 NeatAmp had for me the most holographic soundstage. Sound looked to me very clean and neutral. After hearing the 2 other amps, it was as if "something" was removed. Like a Halo around voices and instruments. But maybe also possibly some harmonic richness/warmth. However, for me, this looked more natural. Daniboun pointed that he was less convinced by the basses.
The modded Aiyima Tilear 2.1 TPA3151 was sort of in between:
- Better soundstage than the Infineon, but less holographic than the TAS3251
- More richness/warmth/halo than the TAS3251 but less than the Infineon.
Bottom line:
- I was surprised that the TAS3251 NeatAmp was sounding (so) different than the modded Aiyima Tilear 2.1 TPA3151. They derive from the same familly of power chips. And they share dynamics, transparancy. But they definitly have different caracters,
- The TAS3251 NeatAmp is more to my personal taste with its soundstage and neutral/clean/natural sound. It is the type of caracter that minimize listening fatigue in my case,
- The level of performance you can squeeze from such amps allways seems to me incredible,
- Next time I will bring more of my test music to have more known references during the listening session.
Thanks a lot to Daniboun for the invitation, making me discover his speakers and current amplifiers (fast rotation), his music. It was a really pleasent moment !
I took the opportunity of a trip to Lyon to liaise with Daniboun, to meet him and compare to its current amplifiers: an Infineo amp and a Aiyima Tilear 2.1 TPA3151 with ELNA caps / OPA1656.
The Infineo amp was connected to an external DAC.
The Aiyima Tilear 2.1 TPA3151 was used with its bluetooth input.
The TAS3251 was fed by a small PCM2706 USB to I2S board (and a basic LED brick before receiving the expected Meanwell 36V 350W power supply).
This maked that the sources were different for the 3 amps.
We listened mainly to Jazz vocals, some drums performance, and some other tracks. We had not so much time available. So we got some first understanding but were not in a position to extensively compare each of the 3 amps with reference tracks. The switch over from one amp to the other, especially with my TAS3251, so we were far fom A/B blind tests. Last, I had not brought my test music, interested in discovering different tracks from Daniboun. It was not my best idea. I really liked the music we listened, for sure, but when you don't know the speakers, have different sources and use different music, you lack some landmarks to associate what you hear to the different components and the sound material. I take precautions about the context because sessions like this are not science, are very subjective, and personnal taste matters a lot in findings, that have to be taken with caution.
All that said, the three amps don't sound the same. I'm bad with analyses and wording my feelings, but here is what I would say.
The Infineon amp is the one we listened the less. For me it had a soundstage more "blurred" than the 2 others. Voice was "larger", taking more space between the 2 speakers. Overal restitution was nice, dynamic with some harmonic richness/warmth. Bus it was not feeling as natural as I would expect.
At the opposite, the TAS3251 NeatAmp had for me the most holographic soundstage. Sound looked to me very clean and neutral. After hearing the 2 other amps, it was as if "something" was removed. Like a Halo around voices and instruments. But maybe also possibly some harmonic richness/warmth. However, for me, this looked more natural. Daniboun pointed that he was less convinced by the basses.
The modded Aiyima Tilear 2.1 TPA3151 was sort of in between:
- Better soundstage than the Infineon, but less holographic than the TAS3251
- More richness/warmth/halo than the TAS3251 but less than the Infineon.
Bottom line:
- I was surprised that the TAS3251 NeatAmp was sounding (so) different than the modded Aiyima Tilear 2.1 TPA3151. They derive from the same familly of power chips. And they share dynamics, transparancy. But they definitly have different caracters,
- The TAS3251 NeatAmp is more to my personal taste with its soundstage and neutral/clean/natural sound. It is the type of caracter that minimize listening fatigue in my case,
- The level of performance you can squeeze from such amps allways seems to me incredible,
- Next time I will bring more of my test music to have more known references during the listening session.
Thanks a lot to Daniboun for the invitation, making me discover his speakers and current amplifiers (fast rotation), his music. It was a really pleasent moment !
Agree on that.
You cant compare different sources in that way.
And as they say your hearing memory is about three seconds so you have to have an fast switch.
I think people hunting difference in amps and changing OPA is hunting for small things.
Best upgrade is speakers and go active with EQ possibilities and digital all the way.
Then you hear an real upgrade.
Thanks for sharing @JMF - I suspect (though can't be sure) that the 'blurred' soundstage you got with the infineon was down to the 10uF X5R ceramic caps at the input. Not only are they going to add distortion but they're also microphonic. What DAC were you using with that amp? It would need a balanced output to drive the Infineon to its full potential.
I am using a double AK4497 DAC with 4 OP amps : 2 OPA1656 + 2 OPA1611 (single) + two separate linear PSU. I have been listening the double mono Merus Infineon amplifier for 5 days now... this amplifier is really great : the more I listen to it the more I keep on saying that it is an excellent "all around" amplifier (can play any kind of music : Jazz / Classical / Pop rock)
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Here's where I shorted the caps across with 0603 0R resistors.
There's not enough room to fit film caps on the PCB itself but with the on-board X5Rs shorted you can add them off-board.
As I understand it, you're using yours in PBTL mode so you need two caps per board, just (replacements for) C8 and C7. No need to short all 4 caps on each PCB.
BTW - the price is lower now on Taobao, just $22 for the analog input and $24 for the I2S variant : ?????HIFI??CLASSD????MERUS MA12070 2X80W-???
There's not enough room to fit film caps on the PCB itself but with the on-board X5Rs shorted you can add them off-board.
As I understand it, you're using yours in PBTL mode so you need two caps per board, just (replacements for) C8 and C7. No need to short all 4 caps on each PCB.
BTW - the price is lower now on Taobao, just $22 for the analog input and $24 for the I2S variant : ?????HIFI??CLASSD????MERUS MA12070 2X80W-???
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I'm not sure it's that simple. I made a dozen of blind tests and after 3rd-4th switch I stop to hear the difference. Longer listening sessions when I focus on differences work better for me. For example, I listen for a minute for one config, then a couple for another and try to figure out the difference.
I read that I'm not the only one who has troubles with blind tests with quick switching. Siegfried Linkwitz wrote about similar observations in his blog. Longer sessions also worked better for him.
I know what you mean: That is why is like so much the "old" STA326.
And thus extensively tweaked the FX D802 (twenty Mouser orders in two years...) : switching and linear voltage regulators, PCB traces/routing, snubber, capacitors (MLCC, electro, film, tantalum), crystal, inductors, etc...
Bringing it to sound better that the best <4k euros integrated amps...
But i can nevertheless hear that it is a dated chip (noise, distortion...), and i am dreaming of tweaking a TSA3251 amp...
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here goes :
Which TPA3255 amp do you recommend? | Page 15 | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum
You need 4 Inductors : MA5173-AE
2 OPA1656 + SOIC > DIP8 Adapter.
+ a good iron solder.
If interested in tweaking a TAS3251, and you are ready to solder it on the board, you can purchase partially populated NeatAmp board ([design log] Neat 2x170W I2S in, I2C controlled, integrated DSP amp (TAS3251)), I still have few. So you can easily tweak all through hole components (none is soldered). You can also replace some smt components.
JMF
I´m sorry to be sceptical again but what makes you think that you´d have to exchange the inductors and even recommend this to others?
Are the original of the wrong inductance, is the ferrite core inferior? Is it the wrong inductance value for YOUR speakers? Did you ever calculate the value that you´d need? Did you ever measure anything on your amp?
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