Hi,
I am looking for an already published design to BR load this little full range for a 3 db spl gain vs a sealed design to reach 98 db vs the 95 dB ax outputt.
The Bass Reflex would not hurt me as the Fl planned is around 750 hz and the driver Fs only 100 hz...
Sure I can sim it, but as BR are difficult to setup fine, if any reliable already I will apreciate it, please.
I plan a 9cm dia.round tube I can easily put the tube port at the back in front of the rear of the cone and setup the internal volume by solids wich play the role of brassing and standwaves breakup before the back load sees the port!
Many thanks
I am looking for an already published design to BR load this little full range for a 3 db spl gain vs a sealed design to reach 98 db vs the 95 dB ax outputt.
The Bass Reflex would not hurt me as the Fl planned is around 750 hz and the driver Fs only 100 hz...
Sure I can sim it, but as BR are difficult to setup fine, if any reliable already I will apreciate it, please.
I plan a 9cm dia.round tube I can easily put the tube port at the back in front of the rear of the cone and setup the internal volume by solids wich play the role of brassing and standwaves breakup before the back load sees the port!
Many thanks
You will need to apply a baffle step correction of about -5dB with the bass reflex to get a balanced neutral sounding output. That takes the overall sensitivity down from 87dB to 82dB. You are going to have a tough time reaching the goal 95dB without huge distortion below 200Hz. I would estimate BSC is 1mH and 6.8 to 10ohms.
Just use any BR simulator. I don’t think it will go much lower than 80Hz from what I recall. Best if used as a FAST above 250Hz and bigger woofer to handle below.
30w max from 82dB is 15dB + 82dB = 95dB is thermal limit. Lots of distortion at max volume.
Just use any BR simulator. I don’t think it will go much lower than 80Hz from what I recall. Best if used as a FAST above 250Hz and bigger woofer to handle below.
30w max from 82dB is 15dB + 82dB = 95dB is thermal limit. Lots of distortion at max volume.
Hi, thanks for chimming in,
I apply it whatever there is no bafle - but the 10 cm face plate of the driver itself, that's right ?
You mean despite I plan a 750 f3 and the stiff cut-off there will be a 200 hz rumble yet ? Oups... didn't think to that !
From what you say better to keep it sealed reaching 0.505 to 0.7 Qtc and apply a bafl step to get rid of the > 1.5 Khz plateau, flaten it to the < 1.5 Khz 85 db plateau, correct ? I will never get there a 85 + 3 db with the BR ...
Edit: so virtually putting the BSC very high in frequency ? Humm, maybe I started from an IEC bafle easurment and not the raw driver one and the 10f/8 is falling very early with just its face plate (no bafle planed or at least 15 cm recessed down the tube that load the unit. or maybe a serie R//C... but this corretion is hard to get right from the talk I had with AllenB -at least for me not experienced enough-
I apply it whatever there is no bafle - but the 10 cm face plate of the driver itself, that's right ?
You mean despite I plan a 750 f3 and the stiff cut-off there will be a 200 hz rumble yet ? Oups... didn't think to that !
From what you say better to keep it sealed reaching 0.505 to 0.7 Qtc and apply a bafl step to get rid of the > 1.5 Khz plateau, flaten it to the < 1.5 Khz 85 db plateau, correct ? I will never get there a 85 + 3 db with the BR ...
Edit: so virtually putting the BSC very high in frequency ? Humm, maybe I started from an IEC bafle easurment and not the raw driver one and the 10f/8 is falling very early with just its face plate (no bafle planed or at least 15 cm recessed down the tube that load the unit. or maybe a serie R//C... but this corretion is hard to get right from the talk I had with AllenB -at least for me not experienced enough-
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A port does not simply add 3 dB. It only helps near the lower acoustic cut-off frequency.
What will be the application of this driver? What frequency range?
What will be the application of this driver? What frequency range?
Planed 750 hz- 3500 or 4000 hz
according the result :
downsizing project, leave it alone for a laptop FR (with just a security high pass) or if good enough: go low distance sleeping room or kitchen 3 ways cabinet (10" or 8" but presumly 8" to avoid big cabinet, or maybe 2 ways ! Sort of 3 way classic but plan littlier box than T.G.
according the result :
downsizing project, leave it alone for a laptop FR (with just a security high pass) or if good enough: go low distance sleeping room or kitchen 3 ways cabinet (10" or 8" but presumly 8" to avoid big cabinet, or maybe 2 ways ! Sort of 3 way classic but plan littlier box than T.G.
I didn’t realize you only needed 750Hz. In that case, use sealed rear chamber. I thought you wanted deeper bass sub 100Hz.
With filter you won’t have distortion issue below 200Hz. I am running 900Hz 1st order and no issues with distortion below 200Hz from the 10F. A 2nd order high pass at 750Hz should ensure nothing too much leaks through.
With filter you won’t have distortion issue below 200Hz. I am running 900Hz 1st order and no issues with distortion below 200Hz from the 10F. A 2nd order high pass at 750Hz should ensure nothing too much leaks through.
No I just thinked naivly the BR will give a 3 db boost from the f3 to the upper frequency...🙁
85 db when flated is low...well not so low but the max spl is very low : even less than the 95 db I believed you said ! so will be a very casual design cause I gave the idea of an horn with Ath4... for a 750 hz better to use a stong CD... there are no so much expensive today and good ! So I want to make something with the scanSpeak, but littlier than T. Gravsen 3 ways Classic for littler room as I believe 95 dB is limited on transcients, though distors are maybe less heard on a transcient, that is not continuous level... For a normal room I would have been more confortable with more than 100 db on transcients below the XMax... Hence the horn you made for it but that is above my hand skills, lol !
Btw did you already made a passive shelves for the + 2 db > 1500 hz ?
85 db when flated is low...well not so low but the max spl is very low : even less than the 95 db I believed you said ! so will be a very casual design cause I gave the idea of an horn with Ath4... for a 750 hz better to use a stong CD... there are no so much expensive today and good ! So I want to make something with the scanSpeak, but littlier than T. Gravsen 3 ways Classic for littler room as I believe 95 dB is limited on transcients, though distors are maybe less heard on a transcient, that is not continuous level... For a normal room I would have been more confortable with more than 100 db on transcients below the XMax... Hence the horn you made for it but that is above my hand skills, lol !
Btw did you already made a passive shelves for the + 2 db > 1500 hz ?
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You talk about your FAST w/ horn and with the Dayton 250-8 ?
900 hz f3, if I tae 3 octaves overlapp, it's landing at 110 hz near the driver Fs 🙂... but with that high cut-off : bye bye the tweeter : the two cut-offs of the band-pass in a 3 way would be too much close ? Sor for FAST only... Why not, I would like to hear it raw before deciding of what I can do for it. Perhaps its FR will be a + inthe highs in a reflective room as a kitchen ! Less energy.
Yep this is the speaker I'm talking about,
not sure I understood your input due to the english being not my native language.
My concern is I thought -by lack of real life experiment- the BR was giving me a + 3d boost on the while frequency and, that is false as a member pointed out.
If I have no advantage for BR vs a sealed : then eeasier the sealed (and nicer the slower -18 db after the Fs ?)
The post was about I worried about the low max spl of this driver because of the limited voltage it can handle at X-Max or a little below : circa 95 db max without singing like a bell.
Tell me more please, not sure I get your point 🙁
not sure I understood your input due to the english being not my native language.
My concern is I thought -by lack of real life experiment- the BR was giving me a + 3d boost on the while frequency and, that is false as a member pointed out.
If I have no advantage for BR vs a sealed : then eeasier the sealed (and nicer the slower -18 db after the Fs ?)
The post was about I worried about the low max spl of this driver because of the limited voltage it can handle at X-Max or a little below : circa 95 db max without singing like a bell.
Tell me more please, not sure I get your point 🙁
OK, I've gotten 'crossed up' by Scanspeak having multiple similar models that at a glance appeared to have the same specs, but they don't, so need to make sure what I posted, then edited out, is correct, so will get back to you later; but pretty confident you can do it IF you're basing the SPLs in 4pi [free] space @ ~250 Hz with 15 W sealed, 23 W vented due to increased dynamic headroom.
GM
GM
Many thanks GM, I'm a ashamed to see your good help here on a so little speaker. I wisch we were speaking about more ambitious 15" vented project.😱
Yes , ScanSpeak made 2 models in the 8 ohms range, mine is indeed the 10F/8424G00 : 10F/8424G00 – Scan-Speak A/S.
I repeat I just planed vented because I naivly believed I can get + 3db spl vs the sealed on the whole frequency from the f3 to the upper frequencies till the low pass. As I was said it helps only close to the vented setup, I'm not sure I need anymore to go a vented design as the Fs of this driver is 100 hz and the -f3 I plan either sealed or BR is 750 hz/800 hz.
To rephrase it, I will not go the vented w for that needs if my assumption of + 3 db was false because my missunderstanding : a sealed will do as we are close to 3 octaves above the driver Fs for my needs.
Now if you 're a talking to get the best impulse response of it according its specs as used as a full range : I am full open ears as an elephant and is interresting as well for an alternative project used as a standalone FR driver in a close desk laptop environment - perhaps what this driver was designed for btw ?!-
Yes , ScanSpeak made 2 models in the 8 ohms range, mine is indeed the 10F/8424G00 : 10F/8424G00 – Scan-Speak A/S.
I repeat I just planed vented because I naivly believed I can get + 3db spl vs the sealed on the whole frequency from the f3 to the upper frequencies till the low pass. As I was said it helps only close to the vented setup, I'm not sure I need anymore to go a vented design as the Fs of this driver is 100 hz and the -f3 I plan either sealed or BR is 750 hz/800 hz.
To rephrase it, I will not go the vented w for that needs if my assumption of + 3 db was false because my missunderstanding : a sealed will do as we are close to 3 octaves above the driver Fs for my needs.
Now if you 're a talking to get the best impulse response of it according its specs as used as a full range : I am full open ears as an elephant and is interresting as well for an alternative project used as a standalone FR driver in a close desk laptop environment - perhaps what this driver was designed for btw ?!-
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If you put the 10F/8424 in a horn, you can get circa +10dB boost and that allows distortion to go way down. I have used it in a foam core tractrix and it sounded very good.
Presenting the Trynergy - a full range tractrix synergy.
I have also used it as a fullrange in a FAST with an RS225-8 here:
10F/8424 & RS225-8 FAST / WAW Ref Monitor
Highpassed at 900Hz with 1st order XO, I can play it very loud, 95dB is not a problem.
Presenting the Trynergy - a full range tractrix synergy.
I have also used it as a fullrange in a FAST with an RS225-8 here:
10F/8424 & RS225-8 FAST / WAW Ref Monitor
Highpassed at 900Hz with 1st order XO, I can play it very loud, 95dB is not a problem.
Yes I know, your thread was the trigger of this purchase. Unfornatully, despite the good draws you provided I was not able to make your horn from foam - poor hand skill abilities-
I eventually planed to print a horn from Ath-4 but Earl said it's possible while not really the best due to the poor force of the driver vs a more muscled compression driver. Joseph Crowe advised me but the huge task is above my knowledge for what was planed as a casual unlockdown project. Btww Joseph Crowe is using it with 4 units in a huge horn for minimal cone mvts... good to now. I also find this unit sounds clean and neutral.
I' also believing whie without proof of concept, it's maye a short spled driver for a classic 3 ways instead pointed out Troel Gravse with his ScanSpeak projecr, cause music is lso transcients.... I now they are compressed by recordig micing desin- loudness war- around 6 db spl max raise for transcients... but well... is this hifi or nt ?
I eventually planed to print a horn from Ath-4 but Earl said it's possible while not really the best due to the poor force of the driver vs a more muscled compression driver. Joseph Crowe advised me but the huge task is above my knowledge for what was planed as a casual unlockdown project. Btww Joseph Crowe is using it with 4 units in a huge horn for minimal cone mvts... good to now. I also find this unit sounds clean and neutral.
I' also believing whie without proof of concept, it's maye a short spled driver for a classic 3 ways instead pointed out Troel Gravse with his ScanSpeak projecr, cause music is lso transcients.... I now they are compressed by recordig micing desin- loudness war- around 6 db spl max raise for transcients... but well... is this hifi or nt ?
You're welcome!
No reason to, small single drivers collected from old radios, TVs, etc., are my audio hobby roots, though admittedly, once exposed to 12-15" 'full range' drivers, horn systems there was no going back except when such drivers were required to meet the needs of the app. 😉
Hopefully we will one day! 🙂
OK had the right model, but wrong specs, though made no difference WRT your app as I understand it.
Re the BR +3 dB issue WRT to your app; at the 250 Hz point, the sealed is limited to 15 W whereas the vented can handle 30 W, so +3 dB due to greater power handling in its mid-band Vs sealed [see overlay].
Hope this clears it up.
GM
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If SPL is a concern, a real midrange might be a better choice than a full range driver. The Scan Speak 10F is optimised to play down to ~100 Hz. The resulting compromise is a longer excursion and heavier cone than you need, both of which are not beneficial for high efficiency.
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Similar price and very high sensitivity mid (almost full) range is PRV 5MR450NDY. About 95dB. Only goes down to 300Hz so probably perfect for you if you need all that sensitivity. Has breakup near 10-12khz so low pass at 3kHz and switch to tweeter. I use mine all the way up to 15kHz and it sounds great.
Thank you, I think my next will be an ESL or a compression driver in a ready-made horn. I will do something casual with the 10F/8424 as I have it already
While not sure a cd/horn + 15" is a good idea in a 35 square meters room... too little room for a 2.5/3m listening distance with huge front wave...😕
While not sure a cd/horn + 15" is a good idea in a 35 square meters room... too little room for a 2.5/3m listening distance with huge front wave...😕
