Can you name one in your mind?Every system has a weakest component.
Can you name one in your mind?
Source (turn table, DAC, tape deck, reel-to-reel, etc.), pre-amp, amplifier, speakers. Those are the common ones. Some would also list cables and interconnects.
In every system, one of these components will be the weakest link. In one system, it might be the amplifier. In another system it might be the source or the speakers. And so on...
Why would I name just one?
Please answer my question now - How long is a piece of string?
cogitech Every system has a weakest component.[/QUOTE said:Can you name one in your mind?
All components and supporting accessories, including the room, have the ability to contribute color, or mask the level of clarity in a given system. It only takes one component to mask the potential clarity of all the whole system. The weak link or links of a system differ with each system, and have a large influence on the overall level of clarity that we actually hear.
My point was that it's really difficult to fairly evaluate a top level component using mid-fi gear in the system to evaluate it, and when that happens the result is often a negative opinion of what could very well be a very good piece of equipment.
The weakest would mean one, no?Source (turn table, DAC, tape deck, reel-to-reel, etc.), pre-amp, amplifier, speakers. Those are the common ones. Some would also list cables and interconnects.
In every system, one of these components will be the weakest link. In one system, it might be the amplifier. In another system it might be the source or the speakers. And so on...
Why would I name just one?
Noticing that you didn't mention the room acoustics on your list of common ones, I suspect that this won't be a fruitful exchange.
When you state "All components", that would include DAC, preamp, amp and cables. Which one of those available on the mainstream market would "color, or mask the level of clarity in a given system"?All components and supporting accessories, including the room, have the ability to contribute color, or mask the level of clarity in a given system. It only takes one component to mask the potential clarity of all the whole system. The weak link or links of a system differ with each system, and have a large influence on the overall level of clarity that we actually hear.
My point was that it's really difficult to fairly evaluate a top level component using mid-fi gear in the system to evaluate it, and when that happens the result is often a negative opinion of what could very well be a very good piece of equipment.
I see you didn't answer my question. Meh. King obtuse doesn't like his own medicine, I see. Not surprised.
When you state "All components", that would include DAC, preamp, amp and cables. Which one of those available on the mainstream market would "color, or mask the level of clarity in a given system"?
All components - including speakers, turntable, cartridge, stylus, tonearm, headshell, CD player, equalizers, tape decks, step ups, and any other components in a system, both passive and active that are in the signal path, can and do add something to the sound that wasn't part of the original recording.
I would if you finish your questioning sentence.I see you didn't answer my question.
As for your example of the weakest one is...?
As for your example of DAC (part of CD player), preamp, amp and cables available on the mainstream market that would "color, or mask the level of clarity in a given system"...?All components - including speakers, turntable, cartridge, stylus, tonearm, headshell, CD player, equalizers, tape decks, step ups, and any other components in a system, both passive and active that are in the signal path, can and do add something to the sound that wasn't part of the original recording.
EH,
I find it hard to believe you cannot hear a difference between gear.....whenever a component gets changed in my system I can tell a difference, some more so than others but there is always a subtle change.
Whether this is a bias that has totally overwhelmed Your senses or maybe some people just don’t do well with subtlety......your fervent views on the matter have certainly peeked my curiosity. I don’t buy the whole ‘save the world from snakeoil’ bit.....there has to more to it?
I find it hard to believe you cannot hear a difference between gear.....whenever a component gets changed in my system I can tell a difference, some more so than others but there is always a subtle change.
Whether this is a bias that has totally overwhelmed Your senses or maybe some people just don’t do well with subtlety......your fervent views on the matter have certainly peeked my curiosity. I don’t buy the whole ‘save the world from snakeoil’ bit.....there has to more to it?
Bob, some people can not see the color red, others can see ghosts. Some others got angry with you even when you agree with them. What can we say?
Even when someone else has changed it without your knowledge?EH,
whenever a component gets changed in my system I can tell a difference, some more so than others but there is always a subtle change.
Even when someone else has changed it without your knowledge?
Done that. 🙂 No they didn't notice.
Yes, and it is known that would result in multiple fractures to their digits!😀
If something isn’t right it makes me nuts
If something isn’t right it makes me nuts
Last edited:
mb, I find it hard to believe that you don't know what I wrote.EH,
I find it hard to believe you cannot hear a difference between gear.....
It may take multiple readings to find the answer to that. As for how many, it depends on the individual's intuition.there has to more to it?
You wrote (in a round about way) that the room and the speaker are the only things that really make a difference so why bother with the rest.
So what if you find a good combination of room and speaker that allows you to hear differences in other upstream components? then wouldn’t changes to the ‘system’ come into play/question for fine tuning?
So what if you find a good combination of room and speaker that allows you to hear differences in other upstream components? then wouldn’t changes to the ‘system’ come into play/question for fine tuning?
...... that wasn't part of the original recording.
But, the 'original recording' wasn't what the performers and producers want us to hear. What the performers/producers heard on their playback and monitor system was 'the sound' that they thought was 'right' for us to hear, and the sound that they created with their art.
So perhaps you need to start with your playback system and compare it to the playback system (and the room) that the artists used??
The concept of 'original recording' is often mentioned, but it's not as clear as some would think.
All the "picking apart" of what/if/when/how a system sounds in any given enviornment has absolutely nothing to do with the original subject of this thread.
Again, more wandering about, which should be posted and "picked apart" on their appropriate threads, of which I'm sure there are many.
Again, more wandering about, which should be posted and "picked apart" on their appropriate threads, of which I'm sure there are many.
Quoting would help your case.You wrote (in a round about way) that the room and the speaker are the only things that really make a difference so why bother with the rest.
There's certainly no shortage of snake oil to go around in the world of high end audio, there are plenty of fools who are very eager to part with their money to buy it, and plenty of clever marketers to entice us. But I think it's worth noting that this is a two way street...as in, there's plenty of people putting lipstick on a pig and not being satisfied with the results.
There are lots of legitimate high end components that get dismissed as snake oil when thrown into a system not capable of revealing a difference. There's an art to assembling a really good system that some never really seem to grasp. Some components truly have higher resolution than others, and some great components just don't mate well together. It's darn difficult navigating our way between the true gems and the snake oil without some help and access to good information, and exposure to true high end sound.
A sound system works together like a chain, and is only as good as the weakest link. My favorite analogy about a sound system is to envision having a picture of some musicians performing a song to represent your music source. Then substitute each of your system components with a pane of glass between you and the picture. The picture is only as clear as the dirtiest pane....if there's multiple dirty panes, it's darn hard to tell the difference if you insert a clear pane in the middle of it all. The hard part is knowing how clear your panes of glass really are...you might think they're nice and clear, but we sort of need to be shown that it can be clearer to even notice that it wasn't in the first place.
Your glass analogy is one I use, and get criticised for, but it does make much sense.
A great component can sound dreadful in a system because it reveals other shortcomings - I think I am in that position ATM, but it takes a great deal of sorting out, in my case because so much sound bad.
Very careful and disciplined procedures are required to get out of that situation, the immediate and wrong response being to eliminate the component introduced just before it all sounded so bad.
It is important to remember that a perfect component will show maximally the deficiencies of the others, and many may revert to an inferior product because it masks the prevailing faults from other components. This may provide comfort, but go away from accuracy.
Learn to live with uncomfortable truths.
All components and supporting accessories, including the room, have the ability to contribute color, or mask the level of clarity in a given system. It only takes one component to mask the potential clarity of all the whole system. The weak link or links of a system differ with each system, and have a large influence on the overall level of clarity that we actually hear.
My point was that it's really difficult to fairly evaluate a top level component using mid-fi gear in the system to evaluate it, and when that happens the result is often a negative opinion of what could very well be a very good piece of equipment.
Yes absolutely.
- Home
- Member Areas
- The Lounge
- The amazing fallacy of High End stuff...