I agree with most of what you have said. The point I make in this thread, however, is that one person's perception of a recording of a particular event is highly unlikely to be the same as their perception would have been at that recording - not least because the information presented to their ears is different in the two cases. The term "accurate" reproduction implores a reference against which fidelity can be judged - objectively or otherwise - and without such a reference, the term is meaningless. It does not preclude anybody perceiving a wholly lifelike illusory experience while listening to a recording at home, but it remains an illusion that is prone to delusion rather than an "accurate" reproduction of some ill-defined reference that (as you point out) is inherently likely to be different for everyone.
We have 2 hearing systems. The one we measure using FR does fall off (sometimes dramatically), but the time response system tend to maintains itself much better. The training a listener gets can bring sensitivity/realization to the party can, at least to some extent, counter that.
dave
Got it.....although I don’t think Julian Hirsch did the description any favors, some other reading on the SDA-SRS was that they actually crossed right channel tweeter info to the left speaker and vice versa but it’s another one of those ‘what is actually true’ internet kind of things.
I wonder if something like this would help put a handle on the front end dsp Mix then compare it to listening position measurements?
CLARITY M STEREO | Meters | Signal Processors | TC Electronic | Categories | Music Tribe - TC Electronic)
According to soundbloke as long as we accept nothing we hear is real and that everyone exists in their own personal surrealism it’s ok.
That would explain your taste in music!
If you mean the cognitive and reflexive systems, then possibly we might be described as having two hearing systems. I suspect from the rest of your message that instead you refer to time and frequency (?), which are actually representations of the same thing. And the part that deteriorates with age is primarily (neurological disorders aside) a physical process in the ears and therefore common to all.
I didn't say that exactly... I referred instead to what we perceive that has a real basis and that which is instead the result of delusion - and that we are unable to distinguish between the too. Our shared reality confers a shared sense of certainty in most cases, if not this thread
This debate would be very much easier if we were all fans of 1970s experimental synthesizer bands that is much akin to listening to test tones for pleasure
I would suggest there are better tools for that job and that this device is better for the one it is intended.
“I didn't say that exactly... I referred instead to what we perceive that has a real basis and that which is instead the result of delusion - and that we are unable to distinguish between the too. Our shared reality confers a shared sense of certainty in most cases, if not this thread”
Isn’t that the point.....to delude ourselves into thinking we’re listening to reality?
The less the brain has to do to get us there the more a state of believability there is.....hence my previous statements that when your system is dialed it puts you in a different place, a trancelike state you can’t (or at least I can’t ) get to without the system being right.
Perhaps this gauge holds more water since reading your input on this....much appreciated!
Isn’t that the point.....to delude ourselves into thinking we’re listening to reality?
The less the brain has to do to get us there the more a state of believability there is.....hence my previous statements that when your system is dialed it puts you in a different place, a trancelike state you can’t (or at least I can’t ) get to without the system being right.
Perhaps this gauge holds more water since reading your input on this....much appreciated!
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For some, it could be considered as that, yes. My contribution here has been to make clear (or not!) that the illusion can be based in reality (derived from the information arriving at the ears) or it can be a delusion (where no such information is present at the ears but instead emanates from the imagination of the listener), but it is always an illusion of reality. Moreover there is a rational argument to suspect absolute certainty of both the listening subject and their objective analyser.
What about nature of audio reproduction?
That (in bold) is your personal view which you are free to hold. The question is, there must have been some kind of influence that shaped it into such thing. For example, those that are in audio business or affiliated one tend to badmouth DBT or objective data that works against their business narrative. My question to you is, are you in audio business or have any affiliation with one and if not, why do you hold such view?
Based on repeated patterns on this forum, I think that's an easy one to guess.
Vaulted ceiling is the one significant thing that you can do to make a room sound good. My house is smaller and simialr and was put up in a similar fashion (my buddy & i did intsall the steel roof — and later replaced it with a better one), took 25 years from start to residency.
dave
Possibly, in the sense that our brains aren't overlaying a pre-heard version of what it thinks a particular instrument should sound like, which I suspect goes on much of the time, and a potential downfall of many perceptual descriptions. However, to me, Kraftwerk's Autobahn is far away from listening to test tonesThis debate would be very much easier if we were all fans of 1970s experimental synthesizer bands that is much akin to listening to test tones for pleasure
I’m not sure that’s a bad thing.
I’m also not real sure I get it.......how screwed up things like our auditory memory is supposed to be, how distorted our view of reality is supposed to be, and the supposedly Grand Canyon like gap between individual versions of perception.
I mean the understanding of the concept is there but personally I just can’t put it together.....having been around music from the source and every aspect in between that and reproduction since I was old enough to walk (maybe sooner) I can pick up on subtle tonal differences between guitar brands, banjo heads, alternate fiddle tunings, on and on......
I can identify these differences every time without fail, how do you explain knowing who’s on the phone as soon as they say one word (without looking at caller Id), being able to identify a bird by only it’s call?
I really think soundbloke may have tested some lame *** subjects to get the results he portrays.......maybe one should do a study of successful sound engineers or music producers, etc if they really want to see what is possible in this realm.
I’m also not real sure I get it.......how screwed up things like our auditory memory is supposed to be, how distorted our view of reality is supposed to be, and the supposedly Grand Canyon like gap between individual versions of perception.
I mean the understanding of the concept is there but personally I just can’t put it together.....having been around music from the source and every aspect in between that and reproduction since I was old enough to walk (maybe sooner) I can pick up on subtle tonal differences between guitar brands, banjo heads, alternate fiddle tunings, on and on......
I can identify these differences every time without fail, how do you explain knowing who’s on the phone as soon as they say one word (without looking at caller Id), being able to identify a bird by only it’s call?
I really think soundbloke may have tested some lame *** subjects to get the results he portrays.......maybe one should do a study of successful sound engineers or music producers, etc if they really want to see what is possible in this realm.
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Bob, it could very well be that these are not very subtle compared to the sort of things that are being discussed here. Unless of course you can pick up those differences when in the room with the instrument but not when played back on a redbook cd.
Bispectral processing!
That is just nonsense and offensive to the people I have worked with. I have cited two people in this thread, one highly respected professional "listener" and the other an engineer/mathematician occupying a superlative level of respect beyond even that. They are not **** lame subjects: Your comments are disappointing to say the least.
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