Unfortunately the RCA .5 reissue of Reiner's 1952 "Also Sprach..." beats any classical on Sheffield hands down for shear enjoyment. IMNSHO of course.
I have the Sheffield Tower of Power direct to digital - and the highs on it are unbearable. That disk was a huge disappointment, and put me off digital for a long time. I'm listening to it now just to make sure I didn't mis-remember, and no, I didn't, even with the high frequency roll-off brought on by advancing age, much of this disk sounds shrill.
I can imagine. The horns are probably more close mic'ed than they should be on the Direct to Disc I have (Sheffield's micing techniques have often come under criticism), but, with the latest tweaks to my system which have cleaned up high end detail significantly, they have a good deal more of the 'bite' of live horns than anything else I've heard on a commercial recording - almost startling, in fact. I could see where that would translate poorly to CD quality digitization.
You have hit the nail on the head regarding close mic placements. In the past I had a friend, totally blind, who was a retired (in the early 70s) recording engineer. He was from the days of tube mics and to show me by demonstration how good they were he played me various copy-masters of some of his recordings. One was of a full choir, organ, and orchestra recorded in Westminster Abbey. It was one of the best I have ever heard. He used a single suspended c-24 microphone with an Ampex two track recorder with a two channel simple eq. unit.
At that time I lived within a couple of hundred yards of Olympic Studios and heard there many tapes of classically recorded sessions, again using simple recording techniques and traditional classic valve mics. In fact I have a few of those tapes which were rescued from a skip (dumpster) when the studio changed hands. These, played on a decent machine, will demonstrate exactly the damage done by cutting rooms with their limiters when the original pressings were made. [I am told that the original reason for such compression was that it allowed for a big increase in cutting head life and thus a degree of economy.]
Given a library of the (copy masters) tapes I would choose, I would not listen to discs of any sort whatsoever!!
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Hi,
Most of the Doug Sax recordings for SL I'm familiar with sound too warm, too lumpy and all in all to tubey.
As for content, to each his own but I pertain there's little there that is of any musical value, D2D or not.
Technically speaking, D2D is of course the next best thing to a master tape but a master tape with no content is only useful as a showcase for what could have been on it. Same goes for D2D, no content.
If you'd want to add content, give me classical music from the mid Fifties or Jazz, for instance. Guess, I'm a bit late with my request...
Cheers,
Most of the Doug Sax recordings for SL I'm familiar with sound too warm, too lumpy and all in all to tubey.
As for content, to each his own but I pertain there's little there that is of any musical value, D2D or not.
Technically speaking, D2D is of course the next best thing to a master tape but a master tape with no content is only useful as a showcase for what could have been on it. Same goes for D2D, no content.
If you'd want to add content, give me classical music from the mid Fifties or Jazz, for instance. Guess, I'm a bit late with my request...
Cheers,
Why are you bumping up a seven year old thread on a contentious subject that has been argued over and over ad nauseum?
jeff
Yeah, I have a Shure M97HE era IV cartridge, just one greade up. Driving a dynaco PAS2. CD vs a clean top quality LP, LP has a little more hiss, a little higher noise floor. Very few CD's have the dynamic range of an LP from the classical era (60's 70's) Telearcs were good in the 80's. There are a few properly mastered CD's, mostly on classical music, not pop. Most CD's have about 15 db dynamic range.
CD's have better 32' organ stop bass; (20-40 hz) LP's had that filtered out in mastering to avoid driving 6' wood consoles to skip the needle.
Do some cartridge loading tricks, per other threads, capacitance load or resistance. Make sure the turntable cables are not too long (> 6') or low resistance. Make sure your needle is weighted enough for the cartridge. My M97 requires 1.5 g, doesn't sound right at 1 g.
Or check your power supply and coupling capacitors in the preamp if over 5-10 years old.
CD's have better 32' organ stop bass; (20-40 hz) LP's had that filtered out in mastering to avoid driving 6' wood consoles to skip the needle.
Do some cartridge loading tricks, per other threads, capacitance load or resistance. Make sure the turntable cables are not too long (> 6') or low resistance. Make sure your needle is weighted enough for the cartridge. My M97 requires 1.5 g, doesn't sound right at 1 g.
Or check your power supply and coupling capacitors in the preamp if over 5-10 years old.
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Before deciding wether to buy the CD or the Vinyl, one can have a look at the "Dynamic Range Database".
As an Example this is a Link to the new Album "25" from Adele.
Album list - Dynamic Range Database
Easy to see, that the vinyl is far more dynamically mastered than the CD.
Also one can see, that an older issue of an Album is often better than a remastered Version. Example is Michael Hedges "Aerial Boundaries" from Windham Hill Records 1984:
Album list - Dynamic Range Database
Best regards
Michael
As an Example this is a Link to the new Album "25" from Adele.
Album list - Dynamic Range Database
Easy to see, that the vinyl is far more dynamically mastered than the CD.
Also one can see, that an older issue of an Album is often better than a remastered Version. Example is Michael Hedges "Aerial Boundaries" from Windham Hill Records 1984:
Album list - Dynamic Range Database
Best regards
Michael
I love and hate vinyl. Mastering tends to be better for vinyl but playback isn't straightforward, it takes so little to have worse sound... Much less issues with CD on that regard, difference between various equipment is nowhere near as great as it is with vinyl.
I love the large covers and it is naiss to look at the disc spin and music come off. I wish vinyl was CLV rather than CAV, I hate how sound gets progressively worse as you get near the center. Less of an issue with 12" 45rpms, but pretty significant with 12" 33rpms and 7" discs. Linear tracking and line contact styluses help but you're still at the mercy of the cut and they aren't always optimal.
I always liked reel to reel more
<3
I love the large covers and it is naiss to look at the disc spin and music come off. I wish vinyl was CLV rather than CAV, I hate how sound gets progressively worse as you get near the center. Less of an issue with 12" 45rpms, but pretty significant with 12" 33rpms and 7" discs. Linear tracking and line contact styluses help but you're still at the mercy of the cut and they aren't always optimal.
I always liked reel to reel more
<3
Although i never sold my records,over the decades slowly but surely audiocd
replaced the records as the main source for listening. Sound quality is good
enough for me. Technicly both sources can sound awesome,but in practice
rarely do. Not every record is a MFSL and "remastered" CDs are sometimes
worse than the original records,but now and then really better sounding.
Well,im undecided which is better. Personaly i hear 80% CD or other digital
formats and 20% records. I admit that the convenient factor plays a role here.
replaced the records as the main source for listening. Sound quality is good
enough for me. Technicly both sources can sound awesome,but in practice
rarely do. Not every record is a MFSL and "remastered" CDs are sometimes
worse than the original records,but now and then really better sounding.
Well,im undecided which is better. Personaly i hear 80% CD or other digital
formats and 20% records. I admit that the convenient factor plays a role here.
Much prefer the sound od "vinyl" over CD anytime.I have found that the "only advantage" a CD has is when you transfer to "cassette" tape.The CD records much louder when played back on the "cassette"...!!!
I have a very good LP and CD set up. Given a very good CD it's perfectly good. My mind tells me the LP people took more trouble. They knew if making a mistake plenty of money would be lost. I was helping Peter Andre ( EMI, not Katy's friend ) choose a turntable. Sansui SR 222 was his idea to go with B&W 801 speakers. I quickly upset him when saying it wasn't good enough. I then said not knowing it was he why had recorded quality dropped in quality. He asked me to define what and when. Almost tearful he said he was director of quality in my favourite period and I had named some of his best work. He had been put out to grass as he did not have the technical understanding of recording the company wanted ( more or less ). He had passed the same exams as a conductor and could splice tape as his qualifications.
I am very pleased with MP3 type formats. They promise OK sound and often do very well. CD always makes me want to do something else usless top quality. Most CD's I own where I have the LP, the CD sounds second best. A few are better on CD. Brian Eno is very good on CD. If that was the typical standard I would be happy. Most are vaguely like tribute bands. No other digital format makes me feel so cheated. The 1972 BBC FM system is fine.
I was thinking about analogue in general recenly. If we lump in all distortions together it is the overal distortion we like or dislike. I take Jean Hiraga as my most trusted expert. He supposes the distortion between harmonics to be the key factor. That is the order is not exagerated away from real life ( exponential harmonics of distortion ) although the THD might be high. His work in the 1980's always found prefered products followed this rule. The Coral 777EX being his near perfect super pick up and cheap. Better than Denon DL103 or Supex 900. Thinking about this I supect a good Hiraga spectrum will almost be like critical saturation in colour. This idea came to me when palying with a picture of my friend on my phone when she was 30 some 32 years ago. By a little playing it looked like it was taken yesterday. This was a photo of a photo. It was not easy to believe how good it looked. Her lad was doing a sound engineers degree. To be honest it was nonsense although wonderful nonsense that I read in his notes. It's like thinking a paint box makes an artist.
Many years ago a friend was given a pair of Quad ESL 63 speakers. These have distortion levels like a good 1950's amplifier. Within reason they can not be beaten on this. Her budget was very small for a system. I chose a Yamaha amplifier ( A500 ? ) as it seemed by measurement to mimic Quad ideals. A good quality albeit cheap CD player. And a Rega P3 turntable. On trying CD I had doubts the amplifer was good enough. Then the turntable was played and the system was one to be very jealous of. This was a complete shock as if any system should favour CD this one should. I think it was the poorest CD sound I heard at the time. There was progress and CD became very reasonable. I had a Meridan 14 bit CD player of that early era. Although using memory I suspect it would still be a favourite today. It lacked a little detail as it's only vice. There was also a Denon DCD300 using a shared 16 bit DAC and time alingement. That sounded great.
I am very pleased with MP3 type formats. They promise OK sound and often do very well. CD always makes me want to do something else usless top quality. Most CD's I own where I have the LP, the CD sounds second best. A few are better on CD. Brian Eno is very good on CD. If that was the typical standard I would be happy. Most are vaguely like tribute bands. No other digital format makes me feel so cheated. The 1972 BBC FM system is fine.
I was thinking about analogue in general recenly. If we lump in all distortions together it is the overal distortion we like or dislike. I take Jean Hiraga as my most trusted expert. He supposes the distortion between harmonics to be the key factor. That is the order is not exagerated away from real life ( exponential harmonics of distortion ) although the THD might be high. His work in the 1980's always found prefered products followed this rule. The Coral 777EX being his near perfect super pick up and cheap. Better than Denon DL103 or Supex 900. Thinking about this I supect a good Hiraga spectrum will almost be like critical saturation in colour. This idea came to me when palying with a picture of my friend on my phone when she was 30 some 32 years ago. By a little playing it looked like it was taken yesterday. This was a photo of a photo. It was not easy to believe how good it looked. Her lad was doing a sound engineers degree. To be honest it was nonsense although wonderful nonsense that I read in his notes. It's like thinking a paint box makes an artist.
Many years ago a friend was given a pair of Quad ESL 63 speakers. These have distortion levels like a good 1950's amplifier. Within reason they can not be beaten on this. Her budget was very small for a system. I chose a Yamaha amplifier ( A500 ? ) as it seemed by measurement to mimic Quad ideals. A good quality albeit cheap CD player. And a Rega P3 turntable. On trying CD I had doubts the amplifer was good enough. Then the turntable was played and the system was one to be very jealous of. This was a complete shock as if any system should favour CD this one should. I think it was the poorest CD sound I heard at the time. There was progress and CD became very reasonable. I had a Meridan 14 bit CD player of that early era. Although using memory I suspect it would still be a favourite today. It lacked a little detail as it's only vice. There was also a Denon DCD300 using a shared 16 bit DAC and time alingement. That sounded great.
I think what vinyl is could be likened to home cooking. CD like going out to eat and thinking I am a better cook. This doesn't happen with most other things I do. I am a reasonable plumber and electrician. The real real guys are better. What sealed the deal for me is CD was an excuse to sell the back catalogue off music. Sometimes the guys doing the transfers were so detached as to offer spaghetti Bolognese which is a fake Italian dish. All we want is Carbonara.
A strange thing I notice is CD is the format I struggle with. Transfers onto MP3 seem more enjoyable. Burger King verses pretentious bistro.. The only affordable CD player I heard years ago that wasn't like this was the Quad 67. I now use the same DAC. My suspicion is the mechanical side is the reason CD is edgy. My mind says impossible, experiments say otherwise. Naim sent me two clamps for the CDI. They sounded very different. I was playing Percy Granger's version of the Valley of the Bells. It was perfect except jumped a bit. The other clamp didn't jump but lost the magic. They laughed and said they shared my oppion! It was the two box version. That system was unusual and magical. Nap250 and Klische Forte 2. It was like two friends from opposite politics getting on great. Very real sounding. Having come across Lockwood Tannoys I can believe it is the real deal even though modern thinking says it's wrong.Having heard the Naim FBL I would say not so different with the Klische being my preference.
A strange thing I notice is CD is the format I struggle with. Transfers onto MP3 seem more enjoyable. Burger King verses pretentious bistro.. The only affordable CD player I heard years ago that wasn't like this was the Quad 67. I now use the same DAC. My suspicion is the mechanical side is the reason CD is edgy. My mind says impossible, experiments say otherwise. Naim sent me two clamps for the CDI. They sounded very different. I was playing Percy Granger's version of the Valley of the Bells. It was perfect except jumped a bit. The other clamp didn't jump but lost the magic. They laughed and said they shared my oppion! It was the two box version. That system was unusual and magical. Nap250 and Klische Forte 2. It was like two friends from opposite politics getting on great. Very real sounding. Having come across Lockwood Tannoys I can believe it is the real deal even though modern thinking says it's wrong.Having heard the Naim FBL I would say not so different with the Klische being my preference.