While I don't have any measurements handy, I'm just now in a situation where I can get to grips with REW and a calibrated mic. I'm running the Fast 10's in an OB config with a pair of Dayton UM10's backing them up. My end goal is to have the UM10's enclosed in a slotted enclosure, (don't know all the acronyms yet), and the Fast 10's running OB with a shared baffle.
I used the Dayton PSS220-8 previous to the Fast 10's in a similar shared baffle semi-OB config with dual Goldwood GW-PC8-8's and backed up with a HiVi RT2C planar for the tippy top end. The Fast 10's don't measure as well as the PS220's above 12khz, which I am mulling over. My intention was to not need an additional driver over 200hz, but that may end up being the case. I was assured by some members fo the Decware forums that the Lii drivers were good to 14khz or so, but that has not yet been the case.
Currently running the Fast 10 with a Yaqin MC13S, the UM10's with a Crown XLS1000, and using a MiniDSP 2x4 in lieu of a passive crossover, with 100hz/240hz Bessel. Still experimenting as I haven't had much experience with REW or the MiniDSP before a couple days ago.
I CAN say the Fast 10 sound much better, to me, than the PS220's, but that's of course subjective and may be weighted by buyer confirmation. I'm running a variation of the Betsy baffle in shape, and the driver is rear mounted. Yes, yes, I've already been warned about diffraction issues due to the depth of the baffle, but it's working for my ears at least.
I used the Dayton PSS220-8 previous to the Fast 10's in a similar shared baffle semi-OB config with dual Goldwood GW-PC8-8's and backed up with a HiVi RT2C planar for the tippy top end. The Fast 10's don't measure as well as the PS220's above 12khz, which I am mulling over. My intention was to not need an additional driver over 200hz, but that may end up being the case. I was assured by some members fo the Decware forums that the Lii drivers were good to 14khz or so, but that has not yet been the case.
Currently running the Fast 10 with a Yaqin MC13S, the UM10's with a Crown XLS1000, and using a MiniDSP 2x4 in lieu of a passive crossover, with 100hz/240hz Bessel. Still experimenting as I haven't had much experience with REW or the MiniDSP before a couple days ago.
I CAN say the Fast 10 sound much better, to me, than the PS220's, but that's of course subjective and may be weighted by buyer confirmation. I'm running a variation of the Betsy baffle in shape, and the driver is rear mounted. Yes, yes, I've already been warned about diffraction issues due to the depth of the baffle, but it's working for my ears at least.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I was torturing myself deciding between Markaudio Alpair 11ms and Sonido SWR96A (I know, two very different drivers) when this driver, apparently having lot of the characteristics I wished, appeared in the spotlight. Very positive opinions of the few first owners, who were experienced speaker builders, decided the choice. Ordered FAST 10 pair a week ago, and they are arriving at my door on Monday.
Anyone from EU, planning to purchase speakers from the Lii Audio, should take in account that there is no EU stock and I believe there never was. Speakers are sent by DHL express from China and you’ll have to deal with the customs office. Lii audio will pay import taxes but you will anyway need to provide the proof of purchase price to customs.
Biggest disadvantage of those drivers is lack of proven cabinets designs. There are some designs at Lii Audio web site but you don’t know what any of them brings.
Anyone interested in some real life measurements for the Crystal 10 & F15 (Betsy OB), could find them at Decware forum:
Forums - Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Anyone from EU, planning to purchase speakers from the Lii Audio, should take in account that there is no EU stock and I believe there never was. Speakers are sent by DHL express from China and you’ll have to deal with the customs office. Lii audio will pay import taxes but you will anyway need to provide the proof of purchase price to customs.
Biggest disadvantage of those drivers is lack of proven cabinets designs. There are some designs at Lii Audio web site but you don’t know what any of them brings.
Anyone interested in some real life measurements for the Crystal 10 & F15 (Betsy OB), could find them at Decware forum:
Forums - Steve's BIG BETSY Project
Well I can tell you that fast 10 and crystal 10 in a simple tqwt open at the bottom and adjustable beats many full range drivers I've owned and heard. Including voxativ field coils and lowthers. I have no interest in measurements only what sounds good as I tend to listen to music. Someone said the spec cried out for an onken cabinet. I also have F15, in a simple open baffle a tweeter added something extra not that I noticed as my hearing has gone above 12Khz and a sub for the very bottom end and these I could live with if I had the space. OB give a very natural presentation and these 15" are fabulous.
A box alignment only impacts the BW up to where it peters out at 2*Fs/Qts', so with rare exception will perform fundamentally the same as other drivers with the same specs. Above this point, baffle size, width sets whether or not BSC is required, so one can sim or browse any number of well proven designs to see how they perform down low, which normally is modified by the room to the point where it often dictates its performance.
Qts' = Qts + any added series resistance [Rs]: HiFi Loudspeaker Design
GM
you can keep your series resistors and any other network or bsc as in my experience they kill the magic. All speakers are compromised in one way or another you just have to choose the one that works for you or continue fannying about instead of enjoying all the beautiful music that musicians and engineers have worked on for our pleasure. I spent ten years or so building 3-4 way front horns, open baffles and small box speakers for the office and could have settled with any of them but with a small dedicated garden room acoustically treated I'm content with crystal 10 in tqwt. With respect there seems to be this rather aloof snobbery about speaker design and the drivers used that I wonder what people here actually listen to on a regular basis or whether it's just a constant swapping and testing that is the hobby and not the music. If that is the case that's all well and good and good luck with that, most everything has been tried since electricity was discovered and in reality there are no new magic designs that better what was done many years ago.
Thanks for asking. I saved myself $1400 swapping out a sacrificial magnesium
Anode rod rather than buying a new hot water heater. So far it’s working well.... no leaks! Got get caught up here since the whole affair monopolized my all my time.
Images as promised....
Various FR and midrange drivers: Lowther PM2, Knight KN850(Goodman’s Triaxiom) Seas midrange, Richard Allan FR, Goodmans FR, shot of a shelf with Wharfedale Alnico Mids and tweeters, Zenith FR, as well as kinap compression drivers and horn tweeters. Currently using a 4way system (sorry) which can be viewed, heard here: YouTube
Various FR and midrange drivers: Lowther PM2, Knight KN850(Goodman’s Triaxiom) Seas midrange, Richard Allan FR, Goodmans FR, shot of a shelf with Wharfedale Alnico Mids and tweeters, Zenith FR, as well as kinap compression drivers and horn tweeters. Currently using a 4way system (sorry) which can be viewed, heard here: YouTube
Attachments
Chinese fortune cookies or fortune speakers
You never know what you will get in Chinese fortune cookie. It’s the same with speakers.
Today I received package with purchased FAST 10 drivers. Inside were the FAST 10S speakers with beefier specs and different T/S parameters. 50 W RMS vs. 25 W, 1,8 T vs. 1.6 T and so on. After pointing this to Lii Audio and several exchanged emails, it is sorted out. Apparently, all data on web page attached to FAST 10 was from preproduction model and, by mistake, was not replaced. All produced FAST 10 models have same data, which is now corrected on their web page. FAST 10S (Supreme) is different only by better looking basket and terminals.
This FAST 10 driver is even better value for money than I taught. I have confirmed with them that all remaining stock is the 10S model. There were opinions that 25 W is too low. Knowing that it is actually 50 W RMS/80 W max and that some parameters are better than specified, makes a difference when you have to decide.
You never know what you will get in Chinese fortune cookie. It’s the same with speakers.
Today I received package with purchased FAST 10 drivers. Inside were the FAST 10S speakers with beefier specs and different T/S parameters. 50 W RMS vs. 25 W, 1,8 T vs. 1.6 T and so on. After pointing this to Lii Audio and several exchanged emails, it is sorted out. Apparently, all data on web page attached to FAST 10 was from preproduction model and, by mistake, was not replaced. All produced FAST 10 models have same data, which is now corrected on their web page. FAST 10S (Supreme) is different only by better looking basket and terminals.
This FAST 10 driver is even better value for money than I taught. I have confirmed with them that all remaining stock is the 10S model. There were opinions that 25 W is too low. Knowing that it is actually 50 W RMS/80 W max and that some parameters are better than specified, makes a difference when you have to decide.
As corrected Fast 10 TS parameters are available, I was curious what estimate would Hornsrep give for proposed TQWT box (designed by Leonidas).
After two days crash course I have results (hoping that there were not too much beginner’s mistakes made during modeling).
Second model is taller box with 160 l volume and horn throat at the bottom, lifted 2 cm from the floor. I would like a box resembling Castle design.
Starting point was Brian Steele’s excel sheet, which results were imported to the Hornsrep.
Still a long way to go before satisfying design.
After two days crash course I have results (hoping that there were not too much beginner’s mistakes made during modeling).
Second model is taller box with 160 l volume and horn throat at the bottom, lifted 2 cm from the floor. I would like a box resembling Castle design.
Starting point was Brian Steele’s excel sheet, which results were imported to the Hornsrep.
Still a long way to go before satisfying design.
Attachments
My Fast 10
I have my Fast 10 and working on the box. Out the box, these baby's sound wonderful. Last week I took them to a friend of mine Hi-end shop and we compared them to the B&W800 I think. These were $10,000 used B&W speakers. We used the same equipment ie Amp, pre and DAC. I have to say, and my friend agreed, the Fast 10 sounds better than the B&W in high's and mids. As for the bass, the B&W had more bass. About 2 to 3 notches more bass. Keep in mind I have not sealed the top and bottom of my enclosure, I just set the open bottom on the top of flat wood and covered the open top with a flat piece of wood. I have not yet added the fiberglass dampening material either. Once I do.....
I have my Fast 10 and working on the box. Out the box, these baby's sound wonderful. Last week I took them to a friend of mine Hi-end shop and we compared them to the B&W800 I think. These were $10,000 used B&W speakers. We used the same equipment ie Amp, pre and DAC. I have to say, and my friend agreed, the Fast 10 sounds better than the B&W in high's and mids. As for the bass, the B&W had more bass. About 2 to 3 notches more bass. Keep in mind I have not sealed the top and bottom of my enclosure, I just set the open bottom on the top of flat wood and covered the open top with a flat piece of wood. I have not yet added the fiberglass dampening material either. Once I do.....
Is your box tqwt, if so the bottom needs to be 30mm minimum from the floor, I made mine with adjustable threaded feet. I haven't added any damping material. They needed several hours run in. I left them running in my workshop for several hours a day for a couple of weeks.
To be honest, I have no idea what tqwt means. But they are but the sides are curved out 2.5" more than the front and back. So the front and back are 14" wide and in the center, the sides are 16.5" on each side. As for feet I will be using isoacoustics gaia ii.
These suckers sound sooo good though.... better than the B&W 800D which is what I measured them with. When it's all said and done, the bass I am getting is fine. I listen to Jazz and Blues mostly. Every now and then opera. If when I'm done I need a little more bass, which I don't see myself really needing, I will not mind buying a midsized powered sub for bass or I'll build my own.
How loud do you listen to your speakers at to break them in? Will you be using an amp? I'm going to either have a guy I met in this forum build an amp for me or Ill by the 25th anniversary decware tube amp.
Tapered quarter wave tube, but I think you have bass reflex, I will check on lenco heaven,
Ah, thanks for the explanation. I will have two 3.5" inch ports in the front that are 6" long. Ive tested with one port but I will now test with two.
Did I say I love these drivers? Even my wife loves them and they aren't even done. I can't imagine them sounding any less than what they do sound once I get a DAC and a tube amp. Right now I am running them with a $300 Sony STR590 receiver from best buy.
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