I would ask you not to mix the content of the thread with personal issues, much less with my family. If you don't like my ideas, I'm sorry, but respect them and respect me, okay?
Correct but close enough in other developed countries. the price of gas was imperial 98 cents per gallon when I came here while in EU was like 3 or 4 times as much It would be amusing to watch big oil shutting its' door tomorrow and saying F.U get on your own from now on.
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Thinking a little, I would blame the manufacturers of the Caterpillar machines .....😡
I do not understand what you mean by that, you also got a check in the mail? Don't disappoint me, friend
why ? your ideas and their implementations will directly or indirectly affect my family and it's well being. There is nothing abstract about it and your'e influencing policy change on a planetary level with your voice.
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@ WTL Thanks for the pictures. My pleasure indeed. Excellent potential to enjoy fantastic organic gardening 😀 Hope video's can inspire You my the very best is this one 720p HD Philip Forrer présente; "Le Jardin du Graal" "This film message by an innovative gardener in France is rapidly becoming a legend among permaculture networks, who know him as the guy in shorts with incredibly big vegetables! With English subtitles he explains how he creates raised beds on top of rotting wood, important water saving tips and tricks and a fascinating explanation of the electro-culture techniques he uses. His approach is inspirational and needs to be spread far and wide. - Translation: Valerie Sandelin."
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While the population keeps increasing and all countries want to move to First World status, all climate change plans and actions are meaningless.
Huge arrays of solar panels are destroying the environment faster than ever, wind turbines are enormously coal intensive and destroy bird life, and electric cars use irreplaceable rare earths at a rate of complete extinction shortly. The least damaging prospect appears to be the continued use and development of nuclear. Without some form of population control agreement from every country and all cults, even that is pointless.
Huge arrays of solar panels are destroying the environment faster than ever, wind turbines are enormously coal intensive and destroy bird life, and electric cars use irreplaceable rare earths at a rate of complete extinction shortly. The least damaging prospect appears to be the continued use and development of nuclear. Without some form of population control agreement from every country and all cults, even that is pointless.
It's hard to not notice all the breaking Benjamins.....that is, like $22B from just US gov in initiatives and all the trickle down cash. The question is how serious really are our world leaders, I mean, the previous US prez just spent $14 million on a large beach front estate in Martha's Vineyard. Doesn't he (or even the insurance company) know it will soon be under the sea? Perhaps even before it can be flipped for profit. 🙄 But then to gamble is to take risk I suppose.
Very sad to see what is happening with the forest in Brazil. Many unique species of life on Earth will be wiped out, perhaps even types unknown, never known.
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Interesting I read that material from the ancient lake bed in the Sahara, stired up by dust storms and carried in the jet stream, trapped in the storm clouds helps feed the Amazon. Also that the forest absords the oxygen at night, decomposition releases methane and CO2, and decomposed material leads to the gigantic plankton bloom at the river mouth, the real oxygen generator. But this is all a precarious delicate balance and if significantly disrupted by what is going on now and pollution in the river would lead to major repercussions. You would think with all the money spent on this issue that deforestation could at least be slowed through the use of international subsidies for economic resources (that region is not exactly a bastion of wealth) and if necessary use them to strong arm the government there to cooperate with some regulation.
. That region has such environmental influence to the whole world. My guess is that after all the funds are filtered through all the outstretched hands along the way, the flow at the bottom becomes restricted like a plaqued up coronary.🙄
BTW, didn't Russian military research just have an accidental mishap, an "incident" regarding a SSC-X-9 equivalent missile?
. That can't be good for the 
, I hear it's created quite the stir over there.
. As for man's risk to Earth's biodome, I have to say nuclear weapon proliferation on top of world wide economic depression is indeed a recipe for disaster.
Very sad to see what is happening with the forest in Brazil. Many unique species of life on Earth will be wiped out, perhaps even types unknown, never known.
. Interesting I read that material from the ancient lake bed in the Sahara, stired up by dust storms and carried in the jet stream, trapped in the storm clouds helps feed the Amazon. Also that the forest absords the oxygen at night, decomposition releases methane and CO2, and decomposed material leads to the gigantic plankton bloom at the river mouth, the real oxygen generator. But this is all a precarious delicate balance and if significantly disrupted by what is going on now and pollution in the river would lead to major repercussions. You would think with all the money spent on this issue that deforestation could at least be slowed through the use of international subsidies for economic resources (that region is not exactly a bastion of wealth) and if necessary use them to strong arm the government there to cooperate with some regulation.
. That region has such environmental influence to the whole world. My guess is that after all the funds are filtered through all the outstretched hands along the way, the flow at the bottom becomes restricted like a plaqued up coronary.🙄 BTW, didn't Russian military research just have an accidental mishap, an "incident" regarding a SSC-X-9 equivalent missile?
. That can't be good for the , I hear it's created quite the stir over there.. As for man's risk to Earth's biodome, I have to say nuclear weapon proliferation on top of world wide economic depression is indeed a recipe for disaster.
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That's it!
People who put money first and foremost, even before their own life, do not think twice before assuming money can buy anything. They think, technology can solve anything. They seem not to realise and not to understand, that technologies take time to develop.
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Read today that the municipality of the German city of Bielefeld has offered a € 1 million reward to anyone who can prove their city exists.
I found that extremely peculiar so did some research. Apparently, in 1994 a German student, doing research on the conspiracy theory phenomenon, decided to create the CT that Bielefeld does not actually exist.
It was so successful that it still is active, and the city actually tries to get an advantage out of it for tourism. This sums it up mostly: Bielefeld Conspiracy - Wikipedia
It seems that people that are susceptible to this will eat anything they are offered as long as it is labelled CT. You would think that 3 seconds with Google earth or your Garmin GPS would settle it, but for a CT-ist that only proves that Google and Garmin are in on the plot!
That also explains that you can't change a CT-ists mind with facts and figures because that is not what his CT is based upon.
I guess we just have to live with it.
Jan
I found that extremely peculiar so did some research. Apparently, in 1994 a German student, doing research on the conspiracy theory phenomenon, decided to create the CT that Bielefeld does not actually exist.
It was so successful that it still is active, and the city actually tries to get an advantage out of it for tourism. This sums it up mostly: Bielefeld Conspiracy - Wikipedia
It seems that people that are susceptible to this will eat anything they are offered as long as it is labelled CT. You would think that 3 seconds with Google earth or your Garmin GPS would settle it, but for a CT-ist that only proves that Google and Garmin are in on the plot!
That also explains that you can't change a CT-ists mind with facts and figures because that is not what his CT is based upon.
I guess we just have to live with it.
Jan
Interesting publications, thanks.
I've to look for specific EU data sets and publications; wrt to the crop yield there are some comparisons from Germany for 1898-1902 to 1952-1956 and 2006 - 2011.
The crop yield was raised by roughly 220-230% overall (means 1898-1902 vs.2006-2011) it seems to be linear growth over time, data from 1952 - 1956 fit quite well. (Wheat, potatoes, rye and sugar beets).
Comparisons were published by the german farmers association but were compiled by the government unit for statistics.
There is usually a wide spread in a group and while the most dogmatic conspiracy theorists will most likely never change their mind, the others might be different.
Anyway it is always interesting which way informations are distributed that insist a climate conspiracy is ongoing.
See for example the blog and book by Marc Moreno........
I was introduced to a fantastic book by a colleague at work
https://zodml.org/sites/default/files/[Jan_Luiten_van_Z]_The_Long_Road_to_the_Industrial_0.pdf
In that book they discuss (in amongst many things) the state of agriculture in Europe, which I think during the middle ages was not much different to anywhere else on the globe. Crop yields were 1/6th of what they are today. So, a big part of the greening of the earth has been the steady improvement in yields through hybridization and selective crop breeding. Famines were quite frequent in India
Famine in India - Wikipedia
until the late 50's early 60's when new high yield crops were planted and alleviated the problem - the 'green revolution'.
NB - the book I referenced also discusses the MWP, its effect on population and the Malthusian Trap as well.
Conspiracy theorists are simply folks who replace one kind of adherence with another.
It is human nature to assume there is a 'known unknown' whether that is because some evil group are manipulating things to their advantage at the expense of others, or whether is it a divine being. If either of those don't float your boat, there's always the aliens you can pin it on 😉
There is a strong innate drive in us to make sense of what we experience around us. We are inquisitive, we want to know, we try to find out. And, when push comes to shove, our brain simply constructs something to fulfill that need. Happens to most of us one time or another, when things fall into place so beautifully yet are wrong.
I think it was Einstein who said: 'For every complicated and difficult problem there exists a simple, clear and wrong answer'.
Jan
I think it was Einstein who said: 'For every complicated and difficult problem there exists a simple, clear and wrong answer'.
Jan
As we all know, proving a negative is quite difficult. 🙂
Although there are experimental labor results that seem to corrobate the CO2 warming hypothesis and there seems to be correlation to temperature rise, we simply can't say for sure that GW is solely/mainly induced by the CO2 emission (and other GHG as well).
It is plausible and as said before, reduction of emissions is usually a good idea as a lot of associated problems will be reduced too, and if there is a risk by nonacting it seems to be more wise to avoid it.
But we know from a lot of fields, that even a theoretical framework together with experimental lab results and correlation of data ensures that the assumed cause-effect relation is for real.
AFAIK our understanding what the reasons for the temparature variability of the earth are, is still quite limited.
As said before, already in the first IPCC report it was emphasized that the temperature anomaly is in the range of the normal variability and due to the already mentioned uncertainties in temperature calculations and baseline assumptions it is not easy to resolve.
And while it seems that something comparable did not happen during the last 1000 years, it nevertheless seems that it did happen in other milleniums.
Jakob,
The climate models have improved drastically over the last 40 years since this issue first started coming to light thanks to climate research. If you go on the IPCC website or look at some of the reports, you can see how these models have evolved. So, my take on this is as we move forward our understanding of the role AGW plays in the climate becomes more refined.
Blackbody radiation is very well understood and we know exactly how much CO2 (or any other GHG including water vapour ) contributes to the warming effect - its precisely what the NASA AIRS satellite ( AIRS ) does. There is not any other source of 2.5 trillion tons CO2 other than manmade (volcanoes and all natural sources < 15% of that figure).
Other possible vectors wrt temperature anomalies have been identified - eg PDO and ADO - (the famous Prof Mann was heavily involved in the research about that BTW) and no doubt the models further refined. Further, the abount of radiation the earth recieives and which regions receive what proportion (NH, SH) is also well understood as is the role NH land mass plays in exacerbating temperature extremes.
So, can we say with absolute certainty that CO2 is not causing GW? Most of what I read tells me the majority of scientists say yes. But suppose some disagree. OK, then put up an alternative theory for the temperature anomaly.
The climate models have improved drastically over the last 40 years since this issue first started coming to light thanks to climate research. If you go on the IPCC website or look at some of the reports, you can see how these models have evolved. So, my take on this is as we move forward our understanding of the role AGW plays in the climate becomes more refined.
Blackbody radiation is very well understood and we know exactly how much CO2 (or any other GHG including water vapour ) contributes to the warming effect - its precisely what the NASA AIRS satellite ( AIRS ) does. There is not any other source of 2.5 trillion tons CO2 other than manmade (volcanoes and all natural sources < 15% of that figure).
Other possible vectors wrt temperature anomalies have been identified - eg PDO and ADO - (the famous Prof Mann was heavily involved in the research about that BTW) and no doubt the models further refined. Further, the abount of radiation the earth recieives and which regions receive what proportion (NH, SH) is also well understood as is the role NH land mass plays in exacerbating temperature extremes.
So, can we say with absolute certainty that CO2 is not causing GW? Most of what I read tells me the majority of scientists say yes. But suppose some disagree. OK, then put up an alternative theory for the temperature anomaly.
Similar to African keyhole gardens. I put one in this spring and it went crazy I almost can't control the groth.
African Keyhole Garden--Great Garden Idea! - Napa Master Gardener Column - ANR Blogs
Perhaps in your own view. I'll bet there will be plenty to discuss.
More repeat your way of categorizing things: If it's something you disagree with or doesn't fit your belief.
Good advice. Not just one side but all sides, right?
Per your own take, there will be something new to discuss as we move forward, say 4 years, 8 years and 11 years from now.
It's not only about the climate only but the whole movement is becoming increasingly attached to ideas of a new government structures and the kids are brainwashed into it. Yeah, sure , call it CT or whatever. Every age has to have it's revolution which usually consumes millions of victims and a new ruling class emerges. The big part of world suffered enormously under scientific and materialists methods of governing just about yesterday and the old ideas under a new guise are coming back.
Usually those who want to change the world have absolutely no control over their own families and mostly have a miserable life spending countless hours on internet boards trying to balance out their misery.
I guarantee that none of the doomsday preachers will do anything to in any way address the coming disasters. They won't move from supposedly endangered areas. They won't try to save their families (if they have any actually ) against imminent dangers and they won't change their stock investments.
It's not all bad. New sustainable technologies will have to be developed no matter what. Fossil fuels will run out eventually. New, more efficient cities will have to be build and consumption based economy has it's limits as well.
Usually those who want to change the world have absolutely no control over their own families and mostly have a miserable life spending countless hours on internet boards trying to balance out their misery.
I guarantee that none of the doomsday preachers will do anything to in any way address the coming disasters. They won't move from supposedly endangered areas. They won't try to save their families (if they have any actually ) against imminent dangers and they won't change their stock investments.
It's not all bad. New sustainable technologies will have to be developed no matter what. Fossil fuels will run out eventually. New, more efficient cities will have to be build and consumption based economy has it's limits as well.
As I've pointed out, it can't be debated much on this forum due to political nature of this movement and the forum filters in place.
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