I thought these were just various magnetic poultices applied to cables, on top of devices, etc.?
See there you go again, wrecking it all by loading us with preconceptions and seeding doubt if we can't hear anything. Great sales pitch but blown any chance of ears only before you start.
Last edited:
Sorry, I don't know much about AKM at this point. Noise floor modulation due to state variable settling is mentioned in an ESS white paper which is available at their website: http://www.esstech.com/files/4314/4095/4318/sabrewp.pdf
Other common known problems with Sigma Delta modulators are described in the book, Understanding Delta-Sigma Data Converters. Chapter 9 discusses, Nonidealities in Continuous-Time Delta-Sigma Modulators.
Some problems and ideas for fixes can be found in patents.
As far as reverb tails go, I doubt they are buried in noise. They can play quite clearly on an old obsolete 16-bit dac, and be mostly inaudible or quite attenuated on an SD dac. Not sure how to go about looking for a cause, or how to measure the effect. Interesting problem, though.
I could not say better.
The older I get, the more I feel like I'm swimming in mystery about audio and how to reproduce music in a credible and enjoyable way.
Acoustic phenomena are so complex, our ears so special, our brains process data so mysteriously (in which our culture and memory plays a big role), our reproductive systems so far from reality that I can not understand how some people may imagine determining the quality of a system from the miserable little measures that we know how to do.
Admittedly, these measures are infinitely more discerning and objective than our feelings, but, obviously, they cover only a very small part of all the phenomena.
As music recording+reproducing is a make believe game, an attempt to create illusions, I do not know a better way than using my ears to evaluate if this illusion is more or less successful, using the measurements we have at our disposal to improve the few things they look at.
Hoping that what works for me will work for others ;-)
nb: When I say "I", it is not an expression of egotism, it is just that I cannot talk for others.
Yep, just because we get repeatable measurements, it doesn't mean that is the full picture of what's going on.
Anyway, there are often differences in measurements but they are considered below audibility - look at the response response to xx3st measurements - too much literal interpretation of measurements without asking what the measurement shows, what are its limitations, how it might be an indicator of issues elsewhere, etc.
Anyway, there are often differences in measurements but they are considered below audibility - look at the response response to xx3st measurements - too much literal interpretation of measurements without asking what the measurement shows, what are its limitations, how it might be an indicator of issues elsewhere, etc.
Goodman is glitch free (except for some hard clipping) but with a rather large gain mismatch (L channel again) on the order of 1% (0.1dB). Unless you fix those basic issues and use some playback/rec hardware with decent S/N-ration I wont bother to do listening tests.
But I will propose a challenge for you: I will randomize two of your provided files (say, the correct 1st minute of Jump 2 & 3) and make sure you can't identify them with simple means, and will upload 4 files total. Then you tell us which ones of A, B, C, and D are Jump2 and which ones are Jump3. Deal?
Listening to this, I was shocked by the way the reverberation was so rapidly killed.
In a church, you have the feeling to be under a solid wave of sound, exploding against the walls, with ebbs and flows. Missed here. Mics too close to the organ tubes ?
And an other question: how a musician can play with such a delay ?
I imagine he plays his music in his head in sync with his fingers, trying to erase what he hear as much as possible ? Never ask to a pianist to play organ, it is a torture. ;-)
The confidence of youth has long gone and fear, uncertainty and doubt have been planted in your mind by "clever" marketing, leaving little space for the pure, unadulterated pleasure of listening to flawed music poorly reproduced on a totally inadequate sound system.
I'm aware of the ESS paper and will check the book you mentioned, but is there any "hard data", some time-domain measurement where the effect is clearly seen?
I'd say, prerequisite: make a loopback recording of your test music with an excellent 24bit ADC+DAC device like the RME Adi-2 ProFS and check if the tails are still intact when played back again via the old 16bit Multibit. Or, preferably the other way round, record the 16bitter with the RME and play it back through the RME as will (and use higher a sample rate). This way you can A/B in realtime, actually, using the RME as standalone ADC-->DAC. That's the kind of test I'd like to see.
Not that I am aware of, but I am not aware of lots of things.
Interesting idea. Only old non-SD dac I have here is pretty distorted in some ways, it is a un-enclosed, power-supply-less, I2S-input-only PCB abraxalito sent me for review. It does play tails very nicely though, when I can get it hooked up on the bench. I have other more pressing things to work on at the moment, but maybe I will try it when I can set things up things for it. The music I usually use for test is the remastered CD of Steely Dan's Aja album. It was recorded without too much compression and limiting, and there is some good ambiance and reverb that can be heard more on some dacs than others. If there is a rush to try an experiment, maybe someone else will get to it before me.
About the only other information we have on reverb tails is buried in a very wordy article at: Audio Fur and the Border Patrol DAC | Part-Time Audiophile
If one has the patience to read it all, there are claims of having listened to the sound of master tapes, tape machines, and dacs. Only thing obvious thing missing from the story seems like it is the mastering A/D and its possible effects.
Count me in!
Of course you are correct, but I am happy that some progress has been achieved anyway.
Let's encourage all effort to make the measures a bit less miserable.
Last edited:
Oh, yes !Let's encourage all effort to make the measures a bit less miserable.
It requires a lot of intuition (open mind attitude), reflexion and ...seriousness.
Last edited:
All this has been said over and over and no progress has been made.
@indra1, remember the thread where the talk was about vertical imagery? When I expressed an interest in whatever distortions might help our perception create such imagery it was effectively shut down by members in the audio business who were adamant it was the phase accuracy of their amplifiers that was responsible for conveying the vertical information in the first place.
@indra1, remember the thread where the talk was about vertical imagery? When I expressed an interest in whatever distortions might help our perception create such imagery it was effectively shut down by members in the audio business who were adamant it was the phase accuracy of their amplifiers that was responsible for conveying the vertical information in the first place.
LOL!
//
I admire your energy to even bother...
//
LOL2 of the day :-D
//
Sounds Like? An Audio Glossary Glossary: T-U | Stereophile.com
timbre - The recognizable characteristic sound "signature" of a musical instrument, by which
it is possible to tell an oboe, for example, from a flute when both are sounding the same note.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.