Ya, these last few posts are pretty typical posts. In essense, there can't be anything to it. Got it.
As you wish!
Now you can go back to discussing Dac reverb tails, something real and relevant to everyone.
As you wish!
Now you can go back to discussing Dac reverb tails, something real and relevant to everyone.
Actually, maybe you haven't 'got it.' I watched the video and saved all the written information that turns up on the speaker positioning technique. Perhaps a use for it will turn up one day. Not saying its useless, only somewhat unclear in terms of the underlying physics in relation to some of the claims.
Everyone who comes into this thread and makes claims that don't seem to make sense on some scientific or engineering level gets the same treatment you got. Nothing special about you or your claims in that regard. It might be a test of your mettle to see if you can successfully defend yourself against it, or at least bring the matter to a truce. Lots of other threads around here are less rough on claimants than this one. Just a bit of a tough crowd here, don't know if you were aware of what you were getting into.
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See DADoD of DIYAudio here and he will sell you PCB also. All Glory is to him.
I only set up the CFA challenge, metrics and support.
My friends at Magnet Technology Audio group in Bangkok, Thailand did the physical build and I tested it as prototype in California and in Thailand.
THx-RNMarsh
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What scope? Umm. I have two TEKtronix --- one is 300Mhz and the other is 500MHz.
??
-Richard
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You guys should get along very well, stated at least once the speaker placement obviated much of the difference in components I assume that includes DAC's. Since everything I use is mediocre we have nothing to discuss.
I do get it and I do have it. I have good music with my speakers set up somewhat in the prescribed manner, or as good as I can get. That's what it's about for me. As I earlier wrote, my experience may be a bit unique. At first listen in 2007, me and that other guy stayed in the room for 3 hours as we heard it the same. Everyone else listened to a tune or two and then quietly got up and left. That's pretty much how it's gone here too.
Remember I'm not John Hunter, who came up with the procedure, or Bob Robbins in the video, who's telling you about the wife in the garage.
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Don't know how he and I might get along. That aside, at least I would agree with you re dacs. Room reverb can obscure can mask small-ish differences in equipment. OTOH, not so much with headphones, at least at low-ish volume levels. With more conventional speaker setups, equipment-related sensitivity is often somewhere in between the two extremes. Nothing new there, is there?
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Unfortunatately, what speaker set-up is primarily the speaker in regards to the room, not the speaker in regards to the listener position. However, you need a reference listening position to make the set-up at all. I am told that once the speakers are properly set up, the actual listening position expands and is not nearly so critical. It is just one factor, careful speaker set-up that separates the hi end believers from the critics, who find just about everything listenable. Dismissing someone who actually has made a great many listeners happy with his efforts, is typical of the people who criticize audio quality in general.
I guess it didn't impress them i.e. it didn't sound like their SET amps and horns. I don't know what the problem is I've tried tip toes, etc. over the years as well as any number of other tweeks and I hear nothing of note. So of course everything I have is second rate or I'm deaf or a liar, end of story.
Please tell me he is not related to Tony Robbins.😱
I recently evaluated a bunch of scopes for work. We looked long and hard at the newer Tektronix MSO 5 and 6 Series (MSO-58 and MSO-64), LeCroy WavePro HD, Keysight S-series and 4000/6000 series.
The LeCroy is always 12-bit and the UI looks great - not cheap. The Tektronix is nice but the FlexProbe arrangement is annoying and you lose an analog channel if you want any digital inputs. The UI is a mixed bag and the LCD is noticeably more dim than the others. It's 10 or 12-bit depending on the selected BW/sample rate and has a 16-bit extended resolution mode at lower speeds.
The Keysights have a lower resolution screen but it's very bright. The software is a little older but works well and it is very, very fast. More protocol decode options available right now than the Tek. Probes seem to be cheaper and more available on eBay also. They do 1M waveforms / sec and feel very analog.
We ended up passing on the higher end stuff for the moment and getting another refurb Keysight MSOX4154A 1.5GHz with all options enabled from Keysight for around $10k, a good value for general debug / troubleshooting, but stops short of being useful for really high speed signal integrity. An S series or higher is what you want if you are dealing with DDR4, PCIe, etc.
For whatever reason, Tektronix seems to have not refreshed their lower / mid-range line and they are lagging behind.
Is your 300MHz a 2465B? I like those.
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It is always very easy to find reasons to not do something, no matter what.
But everyone who listens to music with speakers has actual experience in putting the speakers some place in the room, even if randomly plunking them down and letting things go and not caring about anything other than sound comes out of them.
Inspite of all the recent hoopla all that is really suggested is to move these same speakers around in the room in a prescribed way. And if you like it fine, you've got a plus for your efforts. If not, well, you only wasted a bit of time.
Hi John,
Yes thanks for relating your visit to the SF Audio society last weekend and talk by John Hunter. It got me going on the speaker setup, which for some reason is quite a contentious topic for some.
Yes, it can be. I felt, here is John Hunter, giving a talk for a couple of hours, without pay, just to share his findings. And people, who have never heard a word from him, dissing his input. I guess I feel something special, because I am often treated the same way here, when I try to share some insight from my audio design experience. I have nothing that I can get from contributing here, except perhaps helping to a better audio product. I really don't expect anyone to buy anything that I have designed, as they usually cost too much, even for me.
The reason is minuscule changes in position which when you understand the physics involved makes no sense and no attempt has been made to explain it. The inference being that it takes a long time to position correctly even someone adept that it can take days which frankly sounds ridiculous. The free talks appear to be free advertising for the people supplying this service for audiophiles who's time is too valuable to waste and who really aren't going to move their speakers themselves umpteen times if at all.
Well, I too have tried most anything and everything .... green CD rings, cones/tip toes, etc. I never hear anything detectable. But, some might. ?? Don't know.
THx-RNMarsh
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Ime for non symmetrical environment speakers decide their position in priority to deciding room/furniture aesthetics/ergonomics etc layout. Once the loudspeakers are each playing nice into the room and playing nice with each other ie in concert the soundfield becomes holographic in a sense and as though all sounds are emanating from a vertical line/rod centrally from floor to above the speakers but with directional/time information encoded.
So moving across the room gives a different angular 'view' of the stage and no position is wrong, just another pov. The kitchen (and the garage) are different pov and somehow the sound still conveys spacial information.
Doesn't matter the subject the unproductive arguments keep coming from the same sources, it gets boring.
It's the TDS-3032 DPO. With FFT and Trg options. 2.5Gs/s.
Battery powered optional. Getting old model but works fine... like all industrial gear built to last forever and stay in spec.
https://www.avionteq.com/document/Tektronix-TDS3032-Specification-Sheet.PDF
-Richard
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Yes, I was right, this is apparently quite a contentious subject for you. It's just absolutely hilarious.
Not just me. When it comes to bass, it is dominated by room modes and listening position is just as important as speaker position in the room, unless other techniques are applied as well. This isn't addressed at all in what has been shown, don't worry I don't expect you to change your tune 😉
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