I figured Mr. Jarlstrom might be hanging out here at diyA....Oregon punished an engineer for criticizing red-light cameras. He fought back and won.
"A nearly two-year investigation by the board found he had violated a state law that says only state-licensed engineers can speak publicly about technical matters. Järlström, in turn, filed a federal lawsuit alleging violations of his First Amendment rights."
It took them 2 years? Morons. This vague law would totally shut down this website and hundreds of others like it. Do the people coming up with this nonsense really believe it? No wonder people hate lawyers.
It took them 2 years? Morons. This vague law would totally shut down this website and hundreds of others like it. Do the people coming up with this nonsense really believe it? No wonder people hate lawyers.
Excuse my interest here.What is a PE? Is is anything like the UK’s Chartered Engineer where you have to pay a yearly tithe (in my case, about £240 for next year) to an Engineering Institution in order to get so-called “Chartered” status but which in reality has no legal standing whatsoever. Anybody can style themselves “an engineer” - even the guy that fixes your washing machine!
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The job title listing at TI uses it liberally I know plenty of guys there that aren't PE's. Yes, I think chartered engineer is essentially the same idea. In practice the issue usually comes up in crossing the private/state boundary. Technically in most places an EE can not change the cord on a dishwasher without a state license.
EDIT - maybe PE and CE are different
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I think it's up to 4 years now in most provinces.
Canada is a little different in that describing yourself as an engineer if you are not a member of the provincial engineering body is illegal. I guess it sounds similar to the US in that the engineering acts (laws) are at the provincial level, however the crimininal negligence laws that apply are federal.
The comment about Chartered Engineer making no difference in legal standing. Are you sure? That just sounds wrong to me. Basically after all the 18-19th century mishaps like boiler explosions and bridge failures I think all Western countries adopted laws around engineering.
Let me google that for you. Professional Engineer:
What is a PE?
What is a PE?
To a client, it means you've got the credentials to earn their trust. To an employer, it signals your ability to take on a higher level of responsibility. Among your colleagues, it demands respect. To yourself, it's a symbol of pride and measure of your own hard-won achievement.
To become licensed, engineers must complete a four-year college degree, work under a Professional Engineer for at least four years, pass two intensive competency exams and earn a license from their state's licensure board. Then, to retain their licenses, PEs must continually maintain and improve their skills throughout their careers.
Yet the results are well worth the effort. By combining their specialized skills with their high standards for ethics and quality assurance, PEs help make us healthier, keep us safer and allow all of us to live better lives than ever before.
A century ago, anyone could work as an engineer without proof of competency. In order to protect the public health, safety, and welfare, the first engineering licensure law was enacted in 1907 in Wyoming. Now every state regulates the practice of engineering to ensure public safety by granting only Professional Engineers (PEs) the authority to sign and seal engineering plans and offer their services to the public.
To use the PE seal, engineers must complete several steps to ensure their competency.
Earn a four-year degree in engineering from an accredited engineering program
Pass the Fundamentals of Engineering (FE) exam
Complete four years of progressive engineering experience under a PE
Pass the Principles and Practice of Engineering (PE) exam
What makes a PE different from an engineer?
PEs must also continuously demonstrate their competency and maintain and improve their skills by fulfilling continuing education requirements depending on the state in which they are licensed.
Only a licensed engineer may prepare, sign and seal, and submit engineering plans and drawings to a public authority for approval, or seal engineering work for public and private clients.
PEs shoulder the responsibility for not only their work, but also for the lives affected by that work and must hold themselves to high ethical standards of practice.
Licensure for a consulting engineer or a private practitioner is not something that is merely desirable; it is a legal requirement for those who are in responsible charge of work, be they principals or employees.
Licensure for engineers in government has become increasingly significant. In many federal, state, and municipal agencies, certain governmental engineering positions, particularly those considered higher level and responsible positions, must be filled by licensed professional engineers.
Many states require that individuals teaching engineering must also be licensed. Exemptions to state laws are under attack, and in the future, those in education, as well as industry and government, may need to be licensed to practice. Also, licensure helps educators prepare students for their future in engineering.
You found the same one. Good thing you don't need this to design power amps or IC's.
In my entire career that now spans nearly 40 years I cannot recall ever having worked for a PE or even with one in any of the jobs I have held. It's certainly not very common in the any of the spheres of electronic design and manufacturing I have been involved in.
Seems engineers dealing with government entities are the ones who mostly need this certification.
Seems engineers dealing with government entities are the ones who mostly need this certification.
And everyone of my large projects involves several. Pretty much any loudspeaker above about 70 pounds has the hanging method reviewed and stamped by a structural PE. On the west coast it also is reviewed by a seismic PE.
A project I am currently looking at uses a loudspeaker line array design that I don't think will pass a seismic review.
Attach shows a unit used in Seattle. Would you hang those loudspeakers over people's heads without a structural and seismic review?
A project I am currently looking at uses a loudspeaker line array design that I don't think will pass a seismic review.
Attach shows a unit used in Seattle. Would you hang those loudspeakers over people's heads without a structural and seismic review?
Attachments
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That you for the information. It would appear that the requirements for qualification as a PE (US) or CEng (UK) are pretty much the same (as per the Washington Accord).
What I found interesting was the “state-licensing” of PEs, especially in the context of the litigations described in the OP’s link.
What I found interesting was the “state-licensing” of PEs, especially in the context of the litigations described in the OP’s link.
aren't those plated fasteners, sure they are the right grade and torqued correctly with standoffs inside the tubing?
Welded assembles are another can o worms.
Those even look like a bit like the ones in the Seattle Center Arena...
I think it is a bit like the situation regarding low paid labor, doesn't matter if you have your papers as long as the job gets done.
Total respect for the attack upon the hack job done on to the traffic lights though.
Mostly engineers in the building trades need a PE in the USA.
Engineers who design bridges, hvac systems, electrical systems, etc... must be licensed in order to sign drawings.
Architects, Engineers, Land Surveyors, Landscape Architects, etc...
Engineers who design things like cars, consumer products, etc... don't need licensure.
In most states in the USA, you can call yourself an engineer, but only a licensed engineer can call themselves a "Professional Engineer, or P.E. Some workplaces are picky and non-licensed engineers are called Designers, and those who have passed teh FE exam are called EIT or engineers in training.
Thank goodness for self driving cars. Once they become popular there will never ever be a need for speed cameras ever again. The councils will weep with sorrow for a milion years in lost revenue.
And best thing for alcaholies, if the car is driving itself you can get totally loaded and go on a cross country trip.
And best thing for alcaholies, if the car is driving itself you can get totally loaded and go on a cross country trip.
There are certainly branches of engineering that require licensure (PE) to practice and sign off on plans and documents. Electrical, Mechanical, Civil, Structural or any branch whose finished products when in use involve the safety and welfare of the general public.
Electronics, Telecommunications, Computer, Software Engineers to name a few don't require one to design and implement their products. They fall under what is called Industrial Exemption. And as good engineering practice should be all designs, plans go through a thorough review process before approval.
Electronics, Telecommunications, Computer, Software Engineers to name a few don't require one to design and implement their products. They fall under what is called Industrial Exemption. And as good engineering practice should be all designs, plans go through a thorough review process before approval.
PE licensing is regulated by the States in the US. In most States licensing is required to hold one's self out as a consulting engineer, to testify in court with expert witness status, or to sign off on plans for architectural or civil engineering projects.
Licensing is not required to have a job title as engineer, to say one is employed as an engineer, or to say that one has an engineering degree.
As far as what one calls one's self, there is no law against using any word besides engineer. When I did consulting, I merely described myself as a "software and hardware consultant" which is not regulated in any way. One could as well say, audio amplifier design consultant, or electronic design consultant, or similar without crossing any lines.
Most of the people who bother with PE licensing are people who design lighting and electrical distribution systems for buildings.
The level of expertise to qualify as a PE is about at the BS degree level with a few years of experience.
Licensing is not required to have a job title as engineer, to say one is employed as an engineer, or to say that one has an engineering degree.
As far as what one calls one's self, there is no law against using any word besides engineer. When I did consulting, I merely described myself as a "software and hardware consultant" which is not regulated in any way. One could as well say, audio amplifier design consultant, or electronic design consultant, or similar without crossing any lines.
Most of the people who bother with PE licensing are people who design lighting and electrical distribution systems for buildings.
The level of expertise to qualify as a PE is about at the BS degree level with a few years of experience.
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