You might be thinking of the Pierson's Puppeteer. And those we DO need to worry about..
Pierson Puppeteers, yes of course! Harrison? Niven?
Jan
Well you could argue whether self-awareness is all that much it is thought to be. As you noted, lots of smart beings do very well without it.
There is a nice theory why it actually does bring a lot of extra capability but I don't feel like going into that now.
Jan
Our advanced cognition is our evolutionary advantage, just like the mantis shrimp's extraordinary eyesight and wrecking ball claws are its evolutionary advantage. (Look up the mantis shrimp - it's amazing.) Without this advanced cognition, we would not be able to dominate the planet like we do. Without our understanding of how we relate to and affect other species and the environment, we would never be able to support the present population of people. Population numbers would crash and we would be reduced to small communities largely disconnected from each other, if we're even that lucky.
If too many bears are eating the salmon, then the salmon population will crash. Many bears will starve and the bear population will crash. Then it will recover and it'll be rinse, lather, repeat until some natural force brings about some type of homeostasis. But we can manage wildlife populations and provide a sustainable food source without endangering the survival of the food source species.
I would be surprised if you could teach a bear that. It is our technologies that allow us to flourish. Besides that we're naked, physically weak, slow of foot, have very poor eyesight and hearing, etc. Yet we populate every corner of the earth, from frozen tundra to scorching desert. THAT is our evolutionary advantage.
But we can manage wildlife populations and provide a sustainable food source without endangering the survival of the food source species.
Can we? Are we? I think the jury is still out on that.
we populate every corner of the earth, from frozen tundra to scorching desert. THAT is our evolutionary advantage.
Other species do that, even better than we. The question is, why does self-awareness help us to survive and thrive better? Does intelligence, tool making, killing members of other tribes efficiently, require selfconciousness?
Jan
....i seen somwhere, that human genome looks like was manipulated
some things not possible just like Darwin says
some things not possible just like Darwin says

Can we? Are we? I think the jury is still out on that.
Jan
Of course the jury is still out on that. But the point is our awareness of this is one of our keys to survival.
Other species do that, even better than we. The question is, why does self-awareness help us to survive and thrive better? Does intelligence, tool making, killing members of other tribes efficiently, require selfconciousness?
Why does self awareness help us thrive? It is our understanding of our environment and our relationship to it that allowed us to rise from a subsistence existence to global cooperation in managing the resources of the planet (all warts in this system are duly noted!). Like it or not, this is necessary on some scale if the population of the planet is to be maintained at present levels. This also requires technology, which (the way we do it) requires a general understanding of scientific principles. This is not the same thing as ants farming aphids or bees building nests. This is remarkable technology, but most animals only have one or two amazing tools at their disposal. We invent them in response to ideas and challenges.
I'm not saying that this makes us the pinnacle, not at all. I'm just pointing out that these are the cards evolution dealt us, and without them our species most certainly would not thrive like it does. How many people could the planet support without electricity and other forms of energy, without medical technology, without mass transportation, without advanced agricultural techniques, etc? Think about it.
So what is the pinnacle of evolution anyway? What is the standard?
The human brain I would suggest. But I find it odd that no other creature comes remotely close
....i seen somwhere, that human genome looks like was manipulated
some things not possible just like Darwin says
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Sounds like BS to me. Somewhere along the way populations with fused chromosomes emerged and thrived. Because of the fused chromosome they were unable to breed with the populations they descended from so they formed distinct populations. They just as easily could have died out but they didn't. These species were hominids and we are descended from them. No aliens necessary. 😀
The human brain I would suggest. But I find it odd that no other creature comes remotely close
Other animals come close in many ways. I already pointed that out.
Evolution is never done anyways. Who knows what the situation will be in 500,000 years? We might even be extinct. Some pinnacle that would be.
But not in brain power. I don't have a crystal ball, I wonder why we are not sharing the planet with comparable animals now
Other animals have advanced cognitive abilities. This includes some dolphins and whales, some crows, gorillas and chimps. Dolphins and whales have advanced echolocation abilities as well. These features require brains that are developed to exploit them. I should point out that blind people can learn to use echolocation too.
But in the larger picture, we are definitely the Big Thinkers. (I think 😕) Well, some of us are anyway. You have to make a conscious decision to actually engage the frontal lobes. Some people skate through life without ever using them. I know at least one person like that - he died without ever using his higher intellect. How about you - ever know a person like that?
But in the larger picture, we are definitely the Big Thinkers. (I think 😕) Well, some of us are anyway. You have to make a conscious decision to actually engage the frontal lobes. Some people skate through life without ever using them. I know at least one person like that - he died without ever using his higher intellect. How about you - ever know a person like that?
And if we shared the planet with comparable animals, then we wouldn't share it for long. The resources would not support two populations like us. There would most likely be a fight to the death over these resources. Maybe there already was - other fused chromosome hominids once shared the planet with sapiens but they are extinct. The only archaic lineages still represented in modern populations are sapiens and neanderthalensis. That's us!
...
Other species do that, even better than we. The question is, why does self-awareness help us to survive and thrive better? Does intelligence, tool making, killing members of other tribes efficiently, require selfconciousness?
Jan
Selfconciousness is strongly related with consiousness of our finite nature... This is unique to our species and force us to monumental actions. This is how we managed to substitute education for genetic code in our evolution. We transfer data with scripts not genes. That made us running very fast! Even if we manage to manipulate our genes it would prove very slow compared to constantly updated human knowledge!
One of them runs a big couintry that speaks English I have been told. I never met the man so only as I am told.
And if we shared the planet with comparable animals, then we wouldn't share it for long. The resources would not support two populations like us. There would most likely be a fight to the death over these resources. Maybe there already was - other fused chromosome hominids once shared the planet with sapiens but they are extinct. The only archaic lineages still represented in modern populations are sapiens and neanderthalensis. That's us!
Yes, I think this is a very plausible explanation, it is one that makes sense to me. Shame there are no equally evolved herbivores but I guess they'd be too busy eating to talk to us.......
Of course the jury is still out on that. But the point is our awareness of this is one of our keys to survival.
.
I hear what you say, but is it true?
It is our understanding of our environment and our relationship to it that allowed us to rise from a subsistence existence to global cooperation in managing the resources of the planet .
You might as well say, with much more proof available, that we managed to rip the planet off and threaten our own survival and that of many other species (and even managed to extinguish many species) by inability to intelligently manage our resources. Global cooperation? You mean the 1st world ripping off the 3rd world and making sure they remain below the poverty line?
So if you look at it from that perspective, that much praised 'self-awareness' is a pretty bad deal. We're the only species that messes things up on so grand a scale.
Jan
Supporting a population of 7 billion+ large, warm blooded creatures like us isn't without consequences to the planet. We eat a lot, and we create a lot of waste. When you think about it, we're not doing too badly, and seem to be quickly learning to do better.
It depends where you are, in the first world very few, in the third world (that is and has been and will be exploited by the first world) a shamefully large percentage
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