Right. If an instrument drops off @ such and such,
then a " flat " recording drops off @ the same such and such ....
then a " flat " recording drops off @ the same such and such ....
Corrrect. And JBL has followed his work at Harmon and produced the M2 speaker system for Mastering.
From the earliest days I can remember, Altec and JBl believe one should use the same speaker system in the home as was used for the mastering. You will hear the result exactly as the producer, mastering lab etc heard it.
-RNM
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I thought Toole considered a slightly dropping power response (say 1-2dB per octave above 5kHz) to be ideal. Could be wrong there.
I must see if someone who knows a bloke called Stuart can find out if a clip of the redbird CD could be made available. That is one of the most 'natural' recordings I have in terms of 4 people around a ribbon mic in a house. All sorts of noises (tape deck, cars outside, dogs barking), but it's raw and real. Which I like. (I also have the James Boyk piano recordings on vinyl which are rather good).
I must see if someone who knows a bloke called Stuart can find out if a clip of the redbird CD could be made available. That is one of the most 'natural' recordings I have in terms of 4 people around a ribbon mic in a house. All sorts of noises (tape deck, cars outside, dogs barking), but it's raw and real. Which I like. (I also have the James Boyk piano recordings on vinyl which are rather good).
It was late. To clarify, for the acoustic instruments case the recording system frequency response is flat. And the music frequency spectrum is somewhat tilted downward with rising frequency.
In the case of some modern pop, the music frequency spectrum is flat, with no downward tilt. It sounds bright.
The "tilt" is seen using common log/log scale, dB vs log f.
Sorry for using the wrong wording to describe the differences in my earlier post.
As an adside: VST plugins made by Voxengo that display frequency graphs have an option to rotate the displayed frequency spectrum in order to help simplify adjusting and mixing music to achieve a desired resulting frequency spectrum roll off. They describe it this way: 'The "Slope" selector (which is defined in dB per octave) allows you to adjust spectrum
analyzer display’s slope around 1kHz. Skewing the spectrum can be useful because
higher frequencies usually have weaker power in comparison to the lower
frequencies. By choosing an appropriate spectrum slope, you can compensate for this
fact and make the spectrum plot look more convenient and meaningful.'
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It might help, but in general one would need to have the same room acoustics (and electronics as well) but even after that it isn´t ensured that another listener will have the same listening impression as the original producers/engineers had, simply due to the fact that interindividual differences can be quite large.
Afair that target curve was first proposed by Brüel & Kjaer in the ~1970s, their argument was related to different recording styles and that this response would be best for usual recordings with a mix of direct and diffuse sound field proportion.
yes that is true of course...... however, I might add, mastering and studio recording speakers are closer to the listener/engineer than often found in living rooms. So, you would also arrange to sit at a similar distance with same speakers and have similar reverb time et all. But close monitoring minimizes influences of sounds from the room.
THx-RNMarsh
Almost not wrong. Floyd prescribes speakers with a flat FR and a well behaved directivity pattern, such that it will display a smooth, down sloping sound power with frequency.
For background on these two concepts:
Sound Power and Sound Pressure - U.S. MOTORS
SPL=lux, SP=lumen.
All conventional speakers display increased beaming with increased frequency. So, whilst keeping the on axis FR straight, total sound power radiated will always decrease with frequency in conventional speakers. However, the rate and regularity with which this decline in SP occurs is what separates really good speakers from the rest.
Reflected sound, the quantity of which is a function of SP, has been proven to be important in the perception of timbre. In other words, a speaker that is straight on axis, but with irregularities in its 3D polar, will not reproduce a natural timbre unless corrections can be made through room treatment.
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I've got a pair of Nubert nuLine 32 bookshelf loudspeakers (now obsolete, the current model is nuLine 34)) with an optional electronic module ATM-32. The latter has a control for extending the bass range from the nominal 68Hz down to 43Hz, and another one that allows for lifting or lowering the RHS part of the spectrum in a linear manner in terms of dB/octave. The maximum lift/fall is approx. 7dB@20kHz, see page 7 on the link below:
http://www.nubert.de/downloads/atm-nuline-nuvero.pdf
While I'm using the attenuating part of this control more often than not on the digital material (typically at about -3dB@20kHz), I do not feel the need to use it at all on vinyl.
The rationale of Nubert is that the higher frequencies tend to diminish in this manner in a typical concert hall.
I'm listening to the classics about 80% of the time.
Regards,
Braca
http://www.nubert.de/downloads/atm-nuline-nuvero.pdf
While I'm using the attenuating part of this control more often than not on the digital material (typically at about -3dB@20kHz), I do not feel the need to use it at all on vinyl.
The rationale of Nubert is that the higher frequencies tend to diminish in this manner in a typical concert hall.
I'm listening to the classics about 80% of the time.
Regards,
Braca
AR was one of thee early speaker design companies to realise thee importance of flat power response (as well as flat freq response on-axis). The AR-LST and also Allison One were designed for flat power response. However, their designs were such wide dispersion to achieve the flat power response that nearby wall reflections added a new wrinkle/problems. And briefly we had a flurry of Omni directional speakers to achieve the flat power response.
But in the end, controlled directivity won out with fewer side wall reflections and flat on and off axis to a specified angle. In the M2 case they spec the dispersion angle as 120 degrees. However that is at -6dB down and I use -3dB which gives closer to 90 degree coverage, reasonably flat with some slight downward slope which marketing has spun (for decades) as a plus but it isn't. Its just loss of directivity. Flat is still more accurate. The rest is listening distance and room acoustics and type of music you listen to.
If mostly Rock/pop is your choice then anything goes as there is zero attempt to make a recreation of a live performance. But acoustic... classical, jazz and many others are best recorded and played back flat with flat power response and controlled directivity with same speakers used to mix and master with and sitting same distance. If you do all these things well you get pretty much the same sound heard and intended by the musicians/producer/mastering.
THx-RNMarsh
But in the end, controlled directivity won out with fewer side wall reflections and flat on and off axis to a specified angle. In the M2 case they spec the dispersion angle as 120 degrees. However that is at -6dB down and I use -3dB which gives closer to 90 degree coverage, reasonably flat with some slight downward slope which marketing has spun (for decades) as a plus but it isn't. Its just loss of directivity. Flat is still more accurate. The rest is listening distance and room acoustics and type of music you listen to.
If mostly Rock/pop is your choice then anything goes as there is zero attempt to make a recreation of a live performance. But acoustic... classical, jazz and many others are best recorded and played back flat with flat power response and controlled directivity with same speakers used to mix and master with and sitting same distance. If you do all these things well you get pretty much the same sound heard and intended by the musicians/producer/mastering.
THx-RNMarsh
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It is correct. SPL and SP are both expressed in Bell, just the reference value dimension reflects the difference between force and energy.
I suggest you peruse the remainder of the article.
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I like to do other things than just always sit in the sweet spot when I listen to music. depending on the time of the day. If getting out of the sweet spot steals a lot more than the imaging pattern of what's on the "sound stage" then you've got bigger problems.
I would never subscribe to having to recreate the mastering studio in home. You can, that's fine, but it's not necessary. It isn't required for enjoyment. Also there's typically more information within the music that isn't lost to the mastering, but isn't necessarily portrayed during it to the mixing/mastering engineer. Think about it, a lot of old albums sound great and where mastered on crap speakers and amps. The source material doesn't really leave, and we often get more than they did in the studio. Maybe some day all studios will have rooms for just playback with very good gear, for doing mixing and mastering, but... don't count on it. I'm still wondering why some studios from back the day where sound damn good, and how with all the technology today they're such disappointments...
I certainly hope no one around here believes MoFi albums are anywhere near ideal. They can be better than some originals that were flat out awful, but in general they're mediocre.
I would never subscribe to having to recreate the mastering studio in home. You can, that's fine, but it's not necessary. It isn't required for enjoyment. Also there's typically more information within the music that isn't lost to the mastering, but isn't necessarily portrayed during it to the mixing/mastering engineer. Think about it, a lot of old albums sound great and where mastered on crap speakers and amps. The source material doesn't really leave, and we often get more than they did in the studio. Maybe some day all studios will have rooms for just playback with very good gear, for doing mixing and mastering, but... don't count on it. I'm still wondering why some studios from back the day where sound damn good, and how with all the technology today they're such disappointments...
I certainly hope no one around here believes MoFi albums are anywhere near ideal. They can be better than some originals that were flat out awful, but in general they're mediocre.
George: Used to confuse the hell out of me when I was doing type approvals work as some organisations wanted pressure and some wanted power and forever converting. Mind you dealing with 20log vs 10log in audio is confusing enough for me some days...
Bill, it couldn't be otherwise or the universe would split in half. Double the voltage (6dB) does quadruple the power (3dB+3dB). 6dB=6dB.
I know, but after some years doing RF stuff where its ALL power, having to swap between the decibel (a power ratio) and its bast*rd offspring dBV, esp when people will forget to be explicit confuses this simple soul.🙂
yes, that is true for you and maybe 90% of people who listen in cars and elevators and shopping malls and kitchens, living rooms and anywhere , with anything.
As most people know by now, record/reproduce accuracy is as important to me as the enjoyment of the music. Using a speaker used in mastering etal and similar listening conditions is another step towards accuracy in that if an NS10 was used in studio for EQ and all manner of effects, then hear it on NS10 at home would be accurate to the musicians/engineers way they wanted you to hear it.
Standardizing on better mastering speakers like the JBL M2 helps a lot on both ends in several dimensions. And, you can still enjoy the music.
THx-RNMarsh
RNM,
Actually elevator safety codes make it quite difficult to put a loudspeaker in the cabs. All the cabling must be provided by an approved source and installed in a bundle by the certified elevator contractor. Same for the actual loudspeaker.
So usually when there is a functioning loudspeaker it was grandfathered in and is a bit old to say the least.
However good news on the elevator music front, Muzak is no more! Purchased by folks who offered even cheaper product. I hesitate to call any of those offerings music.
Only one of my arenas doesn't seem to follow that code. But they are also the only US arena that is not in any state.
Actually elevator safety codes make it quite difficult to put a loudspeaker in the cabs. All the cabling must be provided by an approved source and installed in a bundle by the certified elevator contractor. Same for the actual loudspeaker.
So usually when there is a functioning loudspeaker it was grandfathered in and is a bit old to say the least.
However good news on the elevator music front, Muzak is no more! Purchased by folks who offered even cheaper product. I hesitate to call any of those offerings music.
Only one of my arenas doesn't seem to follow that code. But they are also the only US arena that is not in any state.
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