Where I love SEAS drivers and in particular one of their aluminum dome tweeters, I am not in love with coax speakers in general. I have not heard THIS one. I had some Kef's and have heard others. Part of it is maybe they did not spend enough time dealing with the wave-guide effect of the large cone. I also think the fact that the wave guide is moving is not a good thing. Is that better or worse than eliminating the comb filtering of being non-coaxial?
The mg cones are quite difficult to tame, but if done well, they are very low distortion. Looking at their app note, I do not see any attempt to manage the cone breakup. (Go read Linkwitz on the Orion) You of course could do your own crossover, active or passive. ( mini-DSP to Hypex modules for the coax, that would be cool.) Their new sub is one I was looking to try as my favorite Peerless paper/carbon was OBE in favor of aluminum.
Hypex are well respected switching amps. I am not a fan of class D for anything but a sub yet. They are getting there, but not for me yet. It may more that they are different. Not wrong, not right, different. Kind of like a digital picture is different than a film picture. Is it the quiet? I don't know.
The mg cones are quite difficult to tame, but if done well, they are very low distortion. Looking at their app note, I do not see any attempt to manage the cone breakup. (Go read Linkwitz on the Orion) You of course could do your own crossover, active or passive. ( mini-DSP to Hypex modules for the coax, that would be cool.) Their new sub is one I was looking to try as my favorite Peerless paper/carbon was OBE in favor of aluminum.
Hypex are well respected switching amps. I am not a fan of class D for anything but a sub yet. They are getting there, but not for me yet. It may more that they are different. Not wrong, not right, different. Kind of like a digital picture is different than a film picture. Is it the quiet? I don't know.
The latest issue of the German DIY Magazine Klang + Ton has done some measurements on the new SEAS C18EN001/M co-axial.
The tweeter measurements are ok, but nothing outstanding. The mid-range however measures poorly with multiple nasty cone-breakups and consequently high odd-order distortion between 2-4kHz. Due to the shape of the breakups they are not that easily notched out.
We are talking about 2.5% 3rd order distortion between 2-4kHz for 95dB/1m.
For the asked price of these units I think there are better options out there.
Regards
/Göran
I understand this is not such a good kit... Or just to make something diferent but a bit mediocre?
I'm sad that SEAS hasn't been able to develop their co-axials to a higher standard than this since they have had co-axials in their offerings since the early 90;s.
Compare it e.g. to the KEF SP1632 which is far superior for 35% of the SEAS price.
KEF SP1632 Measurements!
Regards
/Göran
Compare it e.g. to the KEF SP1632 which is far superior for 35% of the SEAS price.
KEF SP1632 Measurements!
Regards
/Göran
Interestingly that Troels measurements doesn't show the tweeters 3rd order distortion spike of 1.5% (95dB/1m) at 9kHz due to the tweeters cone break-up at 27kHz. Overall the tweeters performance doesn't look bad at all and this time SEAS managed to get a good tweeter frequency response from a their co-axial.
On the other hand I don't share Troels enthusiasm of the mid-range distortion performance. Four severe cone break-ups causing four 2-2.7% (95dB/1m) 3rd order distortion peaks between 2-4kHz isn't the greatest thing to have to deal with in that frequency region.
Even with Troels rather low level distortion measurement (89dB/1m) it show approx. 1.6% 3rd order distortion.
I would have been more comfortable to deal with one sharp cone break-up higher up in frequency as with the other SEAS hard cone mid-woofers, but with a proper notch and steep filter topology it might work for low level listening and for those who aren't sensitive to remains of a notched cone break-up.
I'm not convinced about the mid-range sonic performance, but I wouldn't rule it out without listening tests. Troels cross-over mock-up seems to get a smooth mid-range roll-off and it will be interesting to see the design he ends up with.
/Göran
I would not ne so concerned about H3 distortion. Here is an example of my outdoor measurements of SEAS L26ROY4. We can see the H3 distortion between 200-500Hz to disappear when crossover is applied. I suppose the same would happen to the coaxial mid.
Ia am waiting for Troels' work on this one! A coaxial mid-tweeter has some unique virtues and obviously the shallow cone helps to get tweeter response so smooth.
Ia am waiting for Troels' work on this one! A coaxial mid-tweeter has some unique virtues and obviously the shallow cone helps to get tweeter response so smooth.
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I'm very much looking forward to Troels' work on this too. Think this coax would make a good m-t-m, or rather woofer-coax-woofer behaving as an almost ideal point source.
I noticed that SEAS published a Mk II of the KingRO4Y kit with the new King Coax. Those measurements look spot on to me. Would love to build a pair someday. Link: SEAS KingRO4Y Mk II
Rodeickvd,
Interesting choices. DSP + Amp + both passive and active crossovers. Not something I would do with off-the-shelf parts. I mean, I would do the passive + active, but I would try to match coaxial drivers a little better.
I would be very interested to hear this sometime.
Best,
Erik
Interesting choices. DSP + Amp + both passive and active crossovers. Not something I would do with off-the-shelf parts. I mean, I would do the passive + active, but I would try to match coaxial drivers a little better.
I would be very interested to hear this sometime.
Best,
Erik
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SEAS proposes to lengthen the box by 50 cm and adding two passive radiators for even deeper bass, which would require recalculating the DSP filters. Anyone who did so and could offer those adjusted filters? Also curious about the radiator mass.
It's best if you measure and recalculate yourself actually. You can deal with any boundary and room nodes in the DSP that way. 🙂
Best,
Erik
Best,
Erik
I heard the original King Roy at RMAF a few years ago in the Madisound room. I thought it sounded quite decent. On the other hand, it did not sound better than a lot of other DIY kits I have heard that cost less or are less complex.
Also, the new 5 inch Seas Prestige coax with aluminum woofer is supposed to be quite good. The reviewer in Stereophile gushed over it in this commercial speaker. Seas has a very similar design posted on their web page for DIYers.
Trenner & Friedl Sun loudspeaker | Stereophile.com
Trenner & Friedl Sun loudspeaker | Stereophile.com
Thanks for the comments dtaylo3. At the risk of going off topic, I've been eyeing the larger brother of that prestige coaxial: the LOKI Mk III kit with the 18 cm T18REX/XFC. It just seems such a different league. With that active crossover and 26 cm woofer, the KingRO4Y should blow the LOKI (or any other "mere coax") away.
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