First DAC purchase help

[mrmky]

I'm just starting to build my listening set up. Right now I am listening to a pair of 605a Altec duplexes in a 620 based cab. I'm driving them with a 3116 or an aAudio Source amp100. Obviously less than ideal, I'll be building a Nelson Pass ACA soon. My source is my iPhone, I really like to just stream for the convenience, and I know I don't want do deal w vinyl at least for now. I'm thinking I could get a little more out of my music with a dac to take advantage of the flac files available on Tidal. I have read a lot of reviews and threads and haven't been able to make a decision. I have an old laptop I could use, I'm just not sure if I would get more bang for the buck with that and something like a raspberry pi+mamboberry board, or something plug n play like a dragonfly?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

[nigelwright7557]

Simplest and cheapest option is a USB DAC.
Or you can spend a bit more on a higher speed and wider data rate USB DAC.

 

[abraxalito]

If you'd like your first DAC to also be your last, pick up one of these : https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.51.0oVB6W&id=19260362926&ns=1&abbucket=13#detail

Then mod it according to my blog post here : http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/blogs/abraxalito/1379-using-digital-amp-dac.html

I've been working on DACs for quite some time now and this modded digital amp is the top of the pile. And it has USB input so well suited to your old laptop.

 

[nigelwright7557]

There are quite a few options on ebay.
Go for highest data rate and data width you can afford.

 

[tilroh]

If you'd like your first DAC to also be your last, pick up one of these : https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.51.0oVB6W&id=19260362926&ns=1&abbucket=13#detail

Then mod it according to my blog post here : http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/blogs/abraxalito/1379-using-digital-amp-dac.html

I've been working on DACs for quite some time now and this modded digital amp is the top of the pile. And it has USB input so well suited to your old laptop.

Looks like something I'd be interested in. I wish taobao had an english translation. How is it as an amp? What's the out put?
Thanks, Mack

 

[tonitonitoni]

buy behringer uca202 , plug and play, "only" 16/48.

 

[nautibuoy]

I suggest sticking with Raspberry Pi route, equipped with a Mamboberry LS or perhaps a HiFiBerry DAC+ Pro

https://www.hifiberry.com/shop/boards/hifiberry-dac-pro/

and use Volumio or Rune Audio as your 'player'. This will give you an effective music streaming system that can be interfaced to services like Tidal and which will sound pretty damn good.

https://volumio.org/

RuneAudio - Embedded Hi-Fi music player

 

[abraxalito]

Looks like something I'd be interested in. I wish taobao had an english translation. How is it as an amp? What's the out put?

I have it driving speakers now and to get it into the zone it needs a huge amount more capacitance on the supply (24V). I have about 40,000uF there and its not enough yet. But with the lighter load of headphones - via a transformer - its stunning.
The rated output is 50W into 4ohm but realistically the supplied power brick can't deliver anything near that (2.5A max current output). I'm using it with 2:1 step down transformers to improve the dynamics, it'll do about 7+7W in this mode. No digital nasties, analog-sounding sweetness but not enough PSRR so far hence a bit 'soft'. Perhaps DSD fans will love it

 

[nautibuoy]

I have it driving speakers now and to get it into the zone it needs a huge amount more capacitance on the supply (24V). I have about 40,000uF there and its not enough yet. But with the lighter load of headphones - via a transformer - its stunning.
The rated output is 50W into 4ohm but realistically the supplied power brick can't deliver anything near that (2.5A max current output). I'm using it with 2:1 step down transformers to improve the dynamics, it'll do about 7+7W in this mode. No digital nasties, analog-sounding sweetness but not enough PSRR so far hence a bit 'soft'. Perhaps DSD fans will love it

Interesting stuff and thanks for sharing; I've been reading your blog entry and taking a look at the base item.

It looks as though the D2-41051 chip is able to accept I2S, which ought to be an improvement over the provided inputs - is there anything on the board to facilitate that?

For the price I'm tempted to buy one but I'm not sure how to go about it as Taobao doesn't seem to want to play; I get lost on the Chinese language pages and if I use Google translate the pages don't seem to work. The item is available on ebay but at what appears to be a much higher price (to suit the UK marketplace I guess).

My interest is in using it to drive loudspeaker primarily so will be interesting to see how you go with the power supply developments.

Do I read your DSD comment as a little dig at DSD listeners liking a soft sound? I'm a DSD listener!

Cheers

Ray

 

[abraxalito]

It looks as though the D2-41051 chip is able to accept I2S, which ought to be an improvement over the provided inputs - is there anything on the board to facilitate that?

I've found no pads or headers for such on the PCB, no. I'm fairly sure the USB and and S/PDIF inputs aren't the weak link so far though its quite possible they may become so if I ever get the power supply up to snuff.

For the price I'm tempted to buy one but I'm not sure how to go about it as Taobao doesn't seem to want to play

The trick I think is to get yourself a Taobao agent. DIYer whinge is based in UK and has done that recently, you could try shooting him a PM for advice though he's rather busy of late having just moved and changed job. He successfully ordered up the STA333BW board on my blog from Taobao for himself.

I get lost on the Chinese language pages and if I use Google translate the pages don't seem to work. The item is available on ebay but at what appears to be a much higher price (to suit the UK marketplace I guess).

Thanks, I'm curious to see how much more expensive it is, what with the UK exchange rate taking a hammering of late.

My interest is in using it to drive loudspeaker primarily so will be interesting to see how you go with the power supply developments.

Today I plan to build myself a 'hexacap' which is an array of caps on a PCB to get extremely low impedance. Then I have to figure out a way to connect it to the amp board without adding too much inductance...

Do I read your DSD comment as a little dig at DSD listeners liking a soft sound? I'm a DSD listener!

Just a mild tease

Save​

 

[nautibuoy]

Thanks for the info abraxalito and I'll await your power supply development results...

If the D2-41051 chip accepts I2S it is likely that the USB input will be outputting I2S so maybe it just takes some investigation of the datasheet and PCB to find some locations to tap in. I may still buy one of these things regardless as, to be honest, although I am thinking of a spare room system my interest is now piqued as to how, with some fettling, it would work with my 15ohm Lowther horns (maybe I'll get teased about that too). An I2S input would allow me to hook into my preferred network audio approach and would open the door to reclocking the incoming data.

Anyway, the cost of the unit you linked to on UK Ebay is £99, though shipping is free (not sure of Taobao shipping cost to the UK?). I will contact the fellow DIY Audio member as you suggest to see if I can get some hints.

Excuse the question, but my knowledge of filtering etc. is somewhat limited; could the filtering you have been experimenting with for headphone use benefit from some tweaking in the loudspeaker context (especially 15ohm drive units)?

I'm conscious that we're cluttering this thread with this discussion so perhaps we should move over to your blog.

Thanks again

Ray

 

[abraxalito]

Let's continue on this newly opened thread - http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digi...-modding-taobao-digital-amps.html#post4879667

 

[mrmky]

Thanks for all the feedback guys. I ordered the Audio Quest Dragonfly 1.5 black. Sadly I'm underwhelmed. I got it because I almost always stream from my phone. I can't really tell a difference on Spotify or Tidal, with or without it....

Using it with an old laptop I actually get increased noise/hum, and reduced bass. It doesn't seem to matter if the laptop is next to the system, or as far away as the power cord will allow. With my phone I get less noise and feedback than with the 3.5 jack. Maybe I just have tin ears

I don't really even know what I don't know yet, there's soooo much to take in!
I'm a little discouraged right now and am inclined to see about returning the Dragonfly.

 

[matt_garman]

Thanks for all the feedback guys. I ordered the Audio Quest Dragonfly 1.5 black. Sadly I'm underwhelmed. I got it because I almost always stream from my phone. I can't really tell a difference on Spotify or Tidal, with or without it....

Using it with an old laptop I actually get increased noise/hum, and reduced bass. It doesn't seem to matter if the laptop is next to the system, or as far away as the power cord will allow. With my phone I get less noise and feedback than with the 3.5 jack. Maybe I just have tin ears

I don't really even know what I don't know yet, there's soooo much to take in!
I'm a little discouraged right now and am inclined to see about returning the Dragonfly.

Well, the Dragonfly isn't DIY, so from this forum's perspective, it's implicitly inferior.

Regarding the laptop hum issue: does that happen on both AC power and battery power? Have you tried with only battery power? Could be a ground loop in there somewhere.

Since you are, by your own admission, in the learning stage, I'd try to avoid spending money, and first get a feel for what DAC changes can mean for your system. That is, try to borrow any DACs you can get your hands on. Or, buy used, so you should be able to re-sell without losing too much money. Get a feel for what you like/don't like, and then you can ask more specific questions that might result in a more meaningful response.

An alternate approach would be to read about some of the projects on this forum. Pick a low-cost, reasonably simple one to start with. Simply trying to find such a project will force you to read about lots of projects, and you'll learn a lot along the way just by reading. That's kind of where I am. I got into diyAudio because I wanted great sound at the lowest possible price. Now my motivations have changed: I of course still want good sound, but my motivation is increasingly about learning more... so as soon as I finish one project, I'm looking for one that's slightly more complex and/or requires learning something new.

 

[mrmky]

All valid points, I know it's all part of the learning curve. Having no experience with a dac even this experience is a step forward. I think my next venture will probably be the rpi route. It will be interesting to see how an actual diy project with a similar budget will perform in comparison. Thanks everyone.

 

[raul_77]

Works with all currently formats and are cheap:

TOPPING D30 DSD Audio Decoder USB Coaxial Optical Fiber XMOS CS4398 24Bit | eBay

 

[nigelwright7557]

I just bough this one.
Not bad for £23.
SA9023+ES9023 USB decoder 24bit/96KHz USB DAC WLX | eBay

 

[nautibuoy]

Thanks for all the feedback guys. I ordered the Audio Quest Dragonfly 1.5 black. Sadly I'm underwhelmed. I got it because I almost always stream from my phone. I can't really tell a difference on Spotify or Tidal, with or without it....

Using it with an old laptop I actually get increased noise/hum, and reduced bass. It doesn't seem to matter if the laptop is next to the system, or as far away as the power cord will allow. With my phone I get less noise and feedback than with the 3.5 jack. Maybe I just have tin ears

I don't really even know what I don't know yet, there's soooo much to take in!
I'm a little discouraged right now and am inclined to see about returning the Dragonfly.

If you haven't done so, return the Dragonfly and get your money back as it clearly doesn't meet your consumer expectations.

If you're going to use your phone a lot and your on Android maybe get a good music player capable of rendering high quality media rather than the usual built-in mp3 app, I use this with excellent results;

Overview

I've only used mine with FLAC files stored on an SD card so you'll need to check out whether it will render a CD quality stream from Tidal.

If this app tempts you it might be worth quickly getting the free trial and giving the Dragonfly one last try. Remember you'll need a USB OTG (On The Go) cable to connect your phone to a USB DAC like the dragonfly.