Has anyone made a clone of the Audience Clairaudient 1+1?
If so, which drivers did you use? Their own or did you find a good, cheaper alternative driver? What did you use for the passive radiators (and how does one add mass to these anyway?)
What about cabinet material and dimensions? Did you find it necessary to duplicate them or did you modify them?
Curious and wishing to learn slowly 🙂
If so, which drivers did you use? Their own or did you find a good, cheaper alternative driver? What did you use for the passive radiators (and how does one add mass to these anyway?)
What about cabinet material and dimensions? Did you find it necessary to duplicate them or did you modify them?
Curious and wishing to learn slowly 🙂
Being that the Audience design pivots around the performance of a very special and not inexpensive OEM & DIY available driver, "cloning" would be tricky, I should think.
As to the general topic of cloning of a commercial or DIY design, much alteration to any of the numerous constituents to its "DNA" could result in a functioning creature, but one that might display enough variation from the original to qualify as a new species
Now, who's trying to be too clever for his own good?😉
As to the general topic of cloning of a commercial or DIY design, much alteration to any of the numerous constituents to its "DNA" could result in a functioning creature, but one that might display enough variation from the original to qualify as a new species
Now, who's trying to be too clever for his own good?😉
So the short answer, is no huh?
🙂
Ok so to clarify, anyone cloned or morphed the Audience 1+1?
Maybe the Aurasound driver could do for a cheaper substitute me thinks out loud
🙂
Ok so to clarify, anyone cloned or morphed the Audience 1+1?
Maybe the Aurasound driver could do for a cheaper substitute me thinks out loud
so many questions 🙂
I think a few people have had a go at using the (expensive) drive units but I don't think anyone has bothered with an exact copy of the enclosure?
Why not buy 4 nice full rangers and make a bipole inspired by the Audiences 🙂
I think a few people have had a go at using the (expensive) drive units but I don't think anyone has bothered with an exact copy of the enclosure?
Why not buy 4 nice full rangers and make a bipole inspired by the Audiences 🙂
I'm tinking of tinkering at some point with the basic idea, yes. Sort of if 1+1 and NHT and Boenicke had an orgy and sired a pair of speakers. Some time this year. I may even learn the math involved, or shockingly, forgo the math(!)
There's a huge amount of information on this site. Do some research, look at the pretty pictures and build something 🙂
If you really like the look of the speaker there's no reason something inspired by it couldn't give good results. Bipoles can be solid speakers but you do tend to need room behind them and with amps so cheap these days why not get rid of the passive radiator and put in a small woofer instead? Just throwing out some ideas 🙂
If you really like the look of the speaker there's no reason something inspired by it couldn't give good results. Bipoles can be solid speakers but you do tend to need room behind them and with amps so cheap these days why not get rid of the passive radiator and put in a small woofer instead? Just throwing out some ideas 🙂
That's pretty much what it's good for.
You seem nice enough.
But Class D gets some real Class D types, if you know what I mean 😉
And the barely covert sales pitches....
Geez what a planet...oh the humanity.
See ya.
SA:
If you really want to copy it, but given there is no driver available - you can't really go wrong with a Scan Speak 10F/8424 as the full range - or a Visaton B80. Both of those are premium high end drivers confirmed by listening tests on this forum to sound exceptionally good. Then add to that a pair of Peerless 830860 5.25in polycone woofers. The sensitivities of these drivers all work out to be about the same as the Clairaudient. Build a box -kind of parallelogram like or however you want it to look (go sealed and use Linkwitz Transform in DSP to extend bass). Buy a miniDSP plate amp with 2 channels of Icepower class D amplification and straightforward way to program the DSP and EQ for standalone operation. If it were me, I would increase woofers to a pair of 830990 carbon fiber cone woofers that are 6.5in vs 5.25in and more xmax. It would be totally adjustable and GREAT sounding as a FAST with a XO at circa 400Hz.
Prices add up as all these are pretty nice parts.
Qnty 4 x 6.5in 830990 woofers are $250
Qnty 2 x SS 10F/8424 fullranges are $200
Qnty 2 x miniDSP PwrICE 125 plate amp with built in 125w amp and DSP and XO $600.
You are at about $1000 without cabinet. But it is almost a guarantee that it will sound like a nice $5000 reference system if properly built and tuned.
A slightly less costly way?
Qnty 2 x Visaton B80's =$125
Qnty4 x Dayton RS180-8 aluminum cone woofers = $200 (I might even swap these woofer for the Peerless carbon above)
Qnty 2 x class D TD7498 100w amp boards = $22
Qnty 1 2x2 miniDSP and adv 2-way plugin = $125 with shipping
About $475 in parts.
With miniDSP and some knowledge of how to program a Harsch quasi transient XO, you can BEAT the Clairadient in the area of temporal dynamics and realism of piano, guitar, drums, bass.
p.s., this is one bit of advice you can do with what you wishe, but as you are new here: it's common to scour the earth for lots of designs looking for the "best" whatever. Take a first step - you can't go wrong. Being not able to make a decision is wrong as you won't have anything. But do avoid blanketing the forums with a lot of new threads asking basically the same question: "what speaker should I build if I am a new?" Because, people give you lots of good info, but if they don't see you start to follow thru with basics, you will end up not getting much air time.
I would suggest you stop "suffering" and start "buying" 🙂
Get the following:
SMSL 36A pro amp $55, or if you don't mind exposed wires $20 for a SMAKN TPA3116D2 on Amazon. You need an amp.
Qnty 2 Vifa TC9FD or TG9FD, or Faital Pro 3FE25 or Dayton RS100-4 or Peerless P830986 or Dayton PS95-8. All of these are under $30 ea. Some only $10. Pick one or two (I would go RS100-4 to get feel of aluminum sound and TC9FD/3FE25 for feel of "paper" sound. Get some wires, a laptop brick power supply. Get a pair of 1mH inductors, and a 6x 10w 5ohm resistors to make BSC's
And a microphone: there is an EMM-6 on sale for $40 at PE.
With these, you can build a sealed, a reflex, a MLTL to start. Listen to them. Measure them, improve them. Once you get handy, get the parts to make the $1000 Clairaudient and you will make it sing.
Start with foam core boxes to test. Make in wood if you are handy. You will learn a lot and end up with some really nice sounding boxes.
Good luck.
If you really want to copy it, but given there is no driver available - you can't really go wrong with a Scan Speak 10F/8424 as the full range - or a Visaton B80. Both of those are premium high end drivers confirmed by listening tests on this forum to sound exceptionally good. Then add to that a pair of Peerless 830860 5.25in polycone woofers. The sensitivities of these drivers all work out to be about the same as the Clairaudient. Build a box -kind of parallelogram like or however you want it to look (go sealed and use Linkwitz Transform in DSP to extend bass). Buy a miniDSP plate amp with 2 channels of Icepower class D amplification and straightforward way to program the DSP and EQ for standalone operation. If it were me, I would increase woofers to a pair of 830990 carbon fiber cone woofers that are 6.5in vs 5.25in and more xmax. It would be totally adjustable and GREAT sounding as a FAST with a XO at circa 400Hz.
Prices add up as all these are pretty nice parts.
Qnty 4 x 6.5in 830990 woofers are $250
Qnty 2 x SS 10F/8424 fullranges are $200
Qnty 2 x miniDSP PwrICE 125 plate amp with built in 125w amp and DSP and XO $600.
You are at about $1000 without cabinet. But it is almost a guarantee that it will sound like a nice $5000 reference system if properly built and tuned.
A slightly less costly way?
Qnty 2 x Visaton B80's =$125
Qnty4 x Dayton RS180-8 aluminum cone woofers = $200 (I might even swap these woofer for the Peerless carbon above)
Qnty 2 x class D TD7498 100w amp boards = $22
Qnty 1 2x2 miniDSP and adv 2-way plugin = $125 with shipping
About $475 in parts.
With miniDSP and some knowledge of how to program a Harsch quasi transient XO, you can BEAT the Clairadient in the area of temporal dynamics and realism of piano, guitar, drums, bass.
p.s., this is one bit of advice you can do with what you wishe, but as you are new here: it's common to scour the earth for lots of designs looking for the "best" whatever. Take a first step - you can't go wrong. Being not able to make a decision is wrong as you won't have anything. But do avoid blanketing the forums with a lot of new threads asking basically the same question: "what speaker should I build if I am a new?" Because, people give you lots of good info, but if they don't see you start to follow thru with basics, you will end up not getting much air time.
I would suggest you stop "suffering" and start "buying" 🙂
Get the following:
SMSL 36A pro amp $55, or if you don't mind exposed wires $20 for a SMAKN TPA3116D2 on Amazon. You need an amp.
Qnty 2 Vifa TC9FD or TG9FD, or Faital Pro 3FE25 or Dayton RS100-4 or Peerless P830986 or Dayton PS95-8. All of these are under $30 ea. Some only $10. Pick one or two (I would go RS100-4 to get feel of aluminum sound and TC9FD/3FE25 for feel of "paper" sound. Get some wires, a laptop brick power supply. Get a pair of 1mH inductors, and a 6x 10w 5ohm resistors to make BSC's
And a microphone: there is an EMM-6 on sale for $40 at PE.
With these, you can build a sealed, a reflex, a MLTL to start. Listen to them. Measure them, improve them. Once you get handy, get the parts to make the $1000 Clairaudient and you will make it sing.
Start with foam core boxes to test. Make in wood if you are handy. You will learn a lot and end up with some really nice sounding boxes.
Good luck.
Last edited:
Timing!
I am about to build an Audience Clairaudient 1+1 clone (as soon as my last driver comes in next week). Fortunately, I got these drivers for a very good price.
As many times as I have tried, there is simply no substitute for the Audience A3 or A3S driver. None of the other small-format, full-range drivers I have used has sufficient linear travel (Xmax) to get the job done. (Since the surface area of these drivers is SO small, they really need to have a good amount of linear travel to get a decent amount of air into the room.)
The passive radiators used are Peerless 830878s, the same units, I believe, that Audience uses. There's a threaded screw hole on the back for adding mass, in the form of washers.
As to cabinet dimensions, I have built a few clones of the Audience Clairaudient "The ONEs" and stuck to Audience's dimensions, roughly 100 cubic inches internally. The cabinets could be made of either Baltic birch plywood or MDF. I have done both. They are so small that there is, IMHO, little or no difference in sound between the two. My "The ONE" clones sound much bigger than they ought to. I built a pair for a recording engineer who, like myself, grew up with QUAD ESL57s and he swears that they are "QUADs for small spaces". It's all about the liquid midrange.
I also have some four-unit speakers I built with Audience A3s. Talk about QUAD-like! Most of the time, I forget to turn my subwoofers on. It is wonderful to hear NOTHING in the way between my amplifier's output transformers and the drivers.
Audience claims to have each driver and passive radiator in separate, isolated chambers in the Clairaudient 1+1. Never having seen inside a factory-built 1+1, one way I could see them doing that is by inserting a diagonal divider in the cabinet. That would put part of the divider perilously close to the back of the A3 driver - and I have discovered that the A3 driver does NOT like to be crowded, otherwise the reflections will hit the back of the driver, which is VERY audible with the A3! I may make my 1+1 clones with one chamber. We'll see...
Although the suggestions given by xrk971 are all very good alternatives, at some point they cease to become Audience Clairaudient 1+1 clones, rather becoming speakers of their own merit. You have to decide if a 1+1 clone is what you want or if you really want something else that, perhaps, would be more affordably built.
If you cannot see your way to acquire four Audience A3 drivers, I would suggest that you pursue a different approach, like those suggested by other forum members. It's all good!
I am about to build an Audience Clairaudient 1+1 clone (as soon as my last driver comes in next week). Fortunately, I got these drivers for a very good price.
As many times as I have tried, there is simply no substitute for the Audience A3 or A3S driver. None of the other small-format, full-range drivers I have used has sufficient linear travel (Xmax) to get the job done. (Since the surface area of these drivers is SO small, they really need to have a good amount of linear travel to get a decent amount of air into the room.)
The passive radiators used are Peerless 830878s, the same units, I believe, that Audience uses. There's a threaded screw hole on the back for adding mass, in the form of washers.
As to cabinet dimensions, I have built a few clones of the Audience Clairaudient "The ONEs" and stuck to Audience's dimensions, roughly 100 cubic inches internally. The cabinets could be made of either Baltic birch plywood or MDF. I have done both. They are so small that there is, IMHO, little or no difference in sound between the two. My "The ONE" clones sound much bigger than they ought to. I built a pair for a recording engineer who, like myself, grew up with QUAD ESL57s and he swears that they are "QUADs for small spaces". It's all about the liquid midrange.
I also have some four-unit speakers I built with Audience A3s. Talk about QUAD-like! Most of the time, I forget to turn my subwoofers on. It is wonderful to hear NOTHING in the way between my amplifier's output transformers and the drivers.
Audience claims to have each driver and passive radiator in separate, isolated chambers in the Clairaudient 1+1. Never having seen inside a factory-built 1+1, one way I could see them doing that is by inserting a diagonal divider in the cabinet. That would put part of the divider perilously close to the back of the A3 driver - and I have discovered that the A3 driver does NOT like to be crowded, otherwise the reflections will hit the back of the driver, which is VERY audible with the A3! I may make my 1+1 clones with one chamber. We'll see...
Although the suggestions given by xrk971 are all very good alternatives, at some point they cease to become Audience Clairaudient 1+1 clones, rather becoming speakers of their own merit. You have to decide if a 1+1 clone is what you want or if you really want something else that, perhaps, would be more affordably built.
If you cannot see your way to acquire four Audience A3 drivers, I would suggest that you pursue a different approach, like those suggested by other forum members. It's all good!
Surely a B80 or 10F and a pair of RS170's and a miniDSP will beat a pair of 3in drivers, even if they have 12mm xmax.
Less IMD, less HD, more SPL, no passive radiator BR-like bass slop.
Less IMD, less HD, more SPL, no passive radiator BR-like bass slop.
I wasn't aware that there was a competition going on, xrk971.
SufferingArtist asked about Audience Clairaudient 1+1 clones. I answered as honestly as I could (having a reasonable amount of experience with these drivers for the past five or six years and 28 years of experience with the Bandor drivers that the A3s were based upon.)
Your designs appear to be very good. They simply would not be the 1+1 clones that SufferingArtist asked about.
BTW, none of the Audience clones I have built with passive radiators have "passive radiator BR-like bass slop".
Have you actually heard Audience speakers yourself? Perhaps you should listen to them first and THEN formulate your ideas about them.
We appear to be coming from opposite ends of the audio experience. You talk of miniDSP and adding woofers to cover the range below 100Hz (necessary for both the B80 and 10F). I talk of vacuum tubes and full-range operation down to about 50Hz before a subwoofer takes over.
It's all good. That's why we have this forum to hash out different ideas. I hope SufferingArtist gets as much out of this thread as he needs to make an informed decision on his next speakers. Good luck to him!
SufferingArtist asked about Audience Clairaudient 1+1 clones. I answered as honestly as I could (having a reasonable amount of experience with these drivers for the past five or six years and 28 years of experience with the Bandor drivers that the A3s were based upon.)
Your designs appear to be very good. They simply would not be the 1+1 clones that SufferingArtist asked about.
BTW, none of the Audience clones I have built with passive radiators have "passive radiator BR-like bass slop".
Have you actually heard Audience speakers yourself? Perhaps you should listen to them first and THEN formulate your ideas about them.
We appear to be coming from opposite ends of the audio experience. You talk of miniDSP and adding woofers to cover the range below 100Hz (necessary for both the B80 and 10F). I talk of vacuum tubes and full-range operation down to about 50Hz before a subwoofer takes over.
It's all good. That's why we have this forum to hash out different ideas. I hope SufferingArtist gets as much out of this thread as he needs to make an informed decision on his next speakers. Good luck to him!
Full Ranger,
Yes, Indo suppose we are on different sides of technology use - both are good. I've been down the single full range driver making bass route and have designed a few that get 55Hz with reasonable distortion figures. A DCR with a TC9FD is one. It's all good as if that is what you are after.
I have designed and modeled thousands of speakers and know that a passive radiator is same as a bass reflex topologically. A bass reflex can never have the same tight low group delay bass that a sealed or aperiodic TL can for same extension and efficiency. It's all based on the frequency response but I don't think you can achieve a shallow roll off need for low GD with a PR. Given the amount of motion the A3 has to go through to achieve bass and handle the highs - on same driver - it will not sound clean disortion wise.
So, really I don't have to actually hear one to form an opinion that bounds the performance relative to a FAST.
Perhaps there are measures of response, impulse, group delay and distortion of your clone?
As to the OP, just giving him a close "look alike" clone that would actually exceed the performance of the original. Sure it's a FAST 2 way with DSP - but not sure if that bothers the OP based on where he is is in his choosing a path.
You have good points and I admire anyone going the path of simple single driver no xo and simple amps. It is a good feeling to hear simplicity. No doubt about it.
Cheers,
X
Yes, Indo suppose we are on different sides of technology use - both are good. I've been down the single full range driver making bass route and have designed a few that get 55Hz with reasonable distortion figures. A DCR with a TC9FD is one. It's all good as if that is what you are after.
I have designed and modeled thousands of speakers and know that a passive radiator is same as a bass reflex topologically. A bass reflex can never have the same tight low group delay bass that a sealed or aperiodic TL can for same extension and efficiency. It's all based on the frequency response but I don't think you can achieve a shallow roll off need for low GD with a PR. Given the amount of motion the A3 has to go through to achieve bass and handle the highs - on same driver - it will not sound clean disortion wise.
So, really I don't have to actually hear one to form an opinion that bounds the performance relative to a FAST.
Perhaps there are measures of response, impulse, group delay and distortion of your clone?
As to the OP, just giving him a close "look alike" clone that would actually exceed the performance of the original. Sure it's a FAST 2 way with DSP - but not sure if that bothers the OP based on where he is is in his choosing a path.
You have good points and I admire anyone going the path of simple single driver no xo and simple amps. It is a good feeling to hear simplicity. No doubt about it.
Cheers,
X
I, too have built many speakers that use sealed, ported, and aperiodic venting, as well as other loading methods. I am not going to tout one loading system over any other. To me, every speaker has to stand on its own merits. And every speaker has to be listened to, not just modeled.
All I can say is that a number of friends and colleagues, all in the sound and/or music industry for many years, enjoy the Audience A3-based speakers I have built. No testing on their part necessary. They listen to the music, not the speakers.
Simple drivers, simple amps. As Nelson Pass once said, when he first designed the Zen amplifier, "What is the sound of one transistor clapping?"
Happiness.
All the best.
All I can say is that a number of friends and colleagues, all in the sound and/or music industry for many years, enjoy the Audience A3-based speakers I have built. No testing on their part necessary. They listen to the music, not the speakers.
Simple drivers, simple amps. As Nelson Pass once said, when he first designed the Zen amplifier, "What is the sound of one transistor clapping?"
Happiness.
All the best.
SA:
Are you saying you are not opposed to an "apply more technology" approach to achieve similar aesthetic but equal or improve performance?
Are you saying you are not opposed to an "apply more technology" approach to achieve similar aesthetic but equal or improve performance?
At this point, confusion has all but set in, I'm afraid. Too many possible choices. Even for my limited use in a tiny room, at a tiny desk.
I have not much chance to audition or try out different designs. Will commit to a kind of 'get a coupla drivers n experiment with em' idea first, probably a cardboard or foamcore or paper mache cabinet build just to try em out. I am looking at parts express, as my emails with local fostex dealers were not ok, and tang band in taiwan - big communication breakdown, they can't seem to send me any prices and shipping - so...
I might add PR later on, or in a fit of spending (see if I can afford it first, I m not cheap, I really am that poor...) get 2 3" FR and 2 PRs and don't do 1+1 but The One type deal.
Who knows?
SA,
IIRC xrk971 has implemented the Mark Audio CHN-70 successfully in a foam-core Karlsonator (can't remember exactly which one). For starters you might consider getting a pair (their is a MA dealer based in Singapore) and build one.
No 1+1 though...
IIRC xrk971 has implemented the Mark Audio CHN-70 successfully in a foam-core Karlsonator (can't remember exactly which one). For starters you might consider getting a pair (their is a MA dealer based in Singapore) and build one.
No 1+1 though...
SufferingArtist,
You hadn't stated the room size situation before. The Audience ClairAudient 1+1 is designed to be placed WELL into a (fairly large) room whereas their "The ONE" speaker (one Audience A3 and one Peerless passive radiator) is designed to be placed very close (about four to six inches) to a wall. It makes the best SMALL "computer speaker" I have ever heard. It sound like your room would not support the 1+1.
In your situation, whether you try it with a real Audience A3 driver or try it with another driver, is to go for the one-driver model. Doing so will also save you half the expense of the 1+1.
As to working with Fostex and TangBand directly, I have had difficulties with them both in the past. It may not be the be-all and end-all of sources, but Parts Express is a very safe bet for most of your DIY needs. And, if you decide to use a PR, they have the Peerless 3.5-inch unit in stock. These days, they run $11 each.
BTW, Audience calls the A3 a three-inch driver. If you measure one, you'll find that it's really a two-inch driver, just like the Bandors and Jordan 50mm Modules that preceded it. All three drivers work very nicely in about 100 cubic inch enclosures. PRs optional.
The very best of luck in this endeavour.
You hadn't stated the room size situation before. The Audience ClairAudient 1+1 is designed to be placed WELL into a (fairly large) room whereas their "The ONE" speaker (one Audience A3 and one Peerless passive radiator) is designed to be placed very close (about four to six inches) to a wall. It makes the best SMALL "computer speaker" I have ever heard. It sound like your room would not support the 1+1.
In your situation, whether you try it with a real Audience A3 driver or try it with another driver, is to go for the one-driver model. Doing so will also save you half the expense of the 1+1.
As to working with Fostex and TangBand directly, I have had difficulties with them both in the past. It may not be the be-all and end-all of sources, but Parts Express is a very safe bet for most of your DIY needs. And, if you decide to use a PR, they have the Peerless 3.5-inch unit in stock. These days, they run $11 each.
BTW, Audience calls the A3 a three-inch driver. If you measure one, you'll find that it's really a two-inch driver, just like the Bandors and Jordan 50mm Modules that preceded it. All three drivers work very nicely in about 100 cubic inch enclosures. PRs optional.
The very best of luck in this endeavour.
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