If you start with an incorrect statement, everything that follows is likewise incorrect.
Why do you over and over come up with such lies. Or do you really not understand the posts here? Don't know what is worse.
Jan
I have no problem believing that I can hear things that others cannot. 😀
What I was curious with (since I joined here in 2003) is whether sounds do not affect people when people cannot hear it. Or, when they claim that their hearing response is -100dB at 16kHz, are they really immune to sound above 16kHz?
My theory was that people might not be able to "hear" a sound BUT they might be affected by the sound.
So, when someone cannot differentiate in an ABX between $3 class-D with $3000 class-A amp, it doesn't mean that they will sound equally satisfying in the long run.
I personally think that this is important. Because I found out that people lost the enjoyment in listening to reproduced music because of simple thing they ignore or do not measure or they consider inaudible.
Be careful with also seeing things. Could end up badly 😛
https://youtu.be/l-lJZiqZaGA
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Now seriously. It also depends on how the ABX is set up. Ideally it should be set with the typical listening conditions - source, room, speakers, preferred volume etc.
Bring it out of those conditions and the ABX tells nothing. Would you be able to tell them apart at 20dB in crappy speakers?
Depending on who you are, and who you compare yourself to, that can be true.
People claim all sorts of crazy things, and they tend to persist in those claims until provided with convincing evidence. The above looks like a made-up example. Explaining made-up examples is a waste of time.
Enjoy whatever throries you need to imagine to make yourself feel good.
It might be that they did a very poor ABX experiment.
I don't think you found this anyplace but the same overheated imagination as sourced the other stuff.
Oh, that's so right. I was just comparing myself to everyone that I have met in my audio hobby.
Not a made up example. I sincerely am curious if their ears/brain is better than what they think it is. I'm deducing that from my own self of course.
It is not about just to feel good. It is about curiosity, inquiring mind. The needs to understand observed phenomena.
I knew about this response. But that's not the point.
You need to have an open mind. You don't need to limit the world to what you have owned or seen.
My point was not about ABX limitation, not about price difference. It's about how poor people's abilities are to differentiate sound differences. To some extent it needs some kind of training, experience, or may be just specific DNA.
I have mentioned about what I called "conscious mind" and "sub-conscious mind". We need to access the "sub-conscious" one in order to know some information in the brain better and faster.
But as the name implies, "sub", means you have to be "unconscious", which is not possible, so my words must be interpreted like this:
We have to increase or move the boundary between "conscious" and "sub-conscious" such that what was "sub-conscious" for us before becomes "conscious".
Don't worry, they're pretty much capable to spot differences. What happens is that they might not care about them. Not more than other factors (convenience, price, etc).
Quick sanity check: if wearing the device below, in conjunction with a specific pair of huge, very expensive loudspeakers and an amp drawing 2kW from the mains would give you the perfect, ideal sound reproduction, how many hours per day would you be using it?
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
This seems so obvious that it need not be said. And yet it seems to be forgotten or not understood over and over and over. Are we really that myopic?
I think there may be some here try to make the obvious pedantic, and what you see is ofttimes an amused and sarcastic backlash.
Nothing happens here without a great deal of thought toward physics in general. The science is respected, the silliness gets silliness in return. Guilty as charged, thus my sig
Nothing happens here without a great deal of thought toward physics in general. The science is respected, the silliness gets silliness in return. Guilty as charged, thus my sig
Audibility level of non linear distortion could perhaps be.....ughhhh.. ummmmm..enhanced with more study and larger cross section imo.
Science is the selection of variables of order such that the number of variables is finite and is a minimum and that these are mutually independent.
So far my up to now not refuted definition ( i.e. science must be consistent but not necessarily be complete. In mathematics, as being considered "closed", an algebra of an primary arithmetic can be consistent and complete, if the algebra can demonstrate all true theorems of the arithmetic - but demonstration is not proof. )
Now for vinyl. Many even young folks go wild after vinyl even if they don't have a turntable. Those LPs are seen as a piece of art, the cover and the shape of the LP with its one visible track tell something which cannot be expressed in words. Then of course those who have a nice turntable swear vinyl sounds much better, although by some assumedly and purportedly objective measure CD is better.
I think it has to do with haptic perception. Playing a LP is a ritual. It begins with a careful selection where the cover plays an important role. Then take the LP carefully out and clean it. Place it on the turntable clean the needle and carefully place the needle on the track by some magic mechanism. The tonearm gently gets down and then...
handling a CD however is more like operating a machine, it is a rule, a trained habit, it is
purely mechanical routine.
All perceptions are connected that is none is independent of each other. Thus, scientifically, we have a mathematical structure that might describe not the mathematical "perception room" but its complexity.
So far my up to now not refuted definition ( i.e. science must be consistent but not necessarily be complete. In mathematics, as being considered "closed", an algebra of an primary arithmetic can be consistent and complete, if the algebra can demonstrate all true theorems of the arithmetic - but demonstration is not proof. )
Now for vinyl. Many even young folks go wild after vinyl even if they don't have a turntable. Those LPs are seen as a piece of art, the cover and the shape of the LP with its one visible track tell something which cannot be expressed in words. Then of course those who have a nice turntable swear vinyl sounds much better, although by some assumedly and purportedly objective measure CD is better.
I think it has to do with haptic perception. Playing a LP is a ritual. It begins with a careful selection where the cover plays an important role. Then take the LP carefully out and clean it. Place it on the turntable clean the needle and carefully place the needle on the track by some magic mechanism. The tonearm gently gets down and then...
handling a CD however is more like operating a machine, it is a rule, a trained habit, it is
purely mechanical routine.
All perceptions are connected that is none is independent of each other. Thus, scientifically, we have a mathematical structure that might describe not the mathematical "perception room" but its complexity.
I have not said who this applies to
But I am sure you can find many posts which claim hearing only 20-20kHz.
There is not a brick wall at those frequencies
Then, there is the case of training.
It was demonstrated at my Syn Aud Con training thing such as the audibility of time alignment, polarity reversal, and ability to hear differences of as small as 0.1dB.
Then, there is also the case that many sounds are just outside of conscious awareness.These things will not be found in an ABX test but will be noticeable, usually over many hours , often as fatigue
In many cases the person is just remembering the shortcomings of past CDs.
Then, there are limitations which are dismissed by scientific types not considering the limitations of the medium.
Yes CDs are theoretically better but the CD player is often compromised.
some errors can not be corrected.
There may be something to this. I remember Toole saying their tests with the Spin-o-rama at Harman used short audio clips.
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