Why would you put a magnet next to a DAC chip, I cant understand such things it is not something you would do in real life...on the same vein, play an LP with a vase on the record...
Digital audio gives a much higher spec than any other and as pointed out on another thread digital recording has been used in studios for many years, and even your analogue records information may have been through numerous DACs.
In my previous post I was not referring to the different playback systems (if you read my posts you will find that I like and enjoy the flawed playback off vinyl) I was referring to the mystique that builds around digital and audio... most sites that offer digital audio add some audiophile magic (cr**) to try and justify USB cables sounding different etc, or HD sounding different to SSD, why does there always have to be some esoteric magic involved, why not just get on and engineer a solution... marketing and mass hallucinations
...Off course you could prove me wrong with some links to proper testing (DBT) that shows true audibility of some of these things.......
I do honestly think there is far to much mystique surrounding digital audio and audio in general, a lot created by the parasites who sell certain products, that create and promote these myths to further there own addenda's and there are far to many who just accept the emperors new clothes without question.
Vinyl....Don't Bother Coming....
My current A system setup is an Asus netbook feeding an Edirol UA-25ex USB soundcard via USB isolator/DC power injector, balanced output from the Edirol directly into Behringer B2031 powered speakers, Foobar with polarity switching plugin, 3 x medical grade screened toroidal isolation transformers.
Dead clean, dead quiet, huge dynamics, pin sharp/precise and perfectly stable placement and depth imaging.
IOW, clean, clear and musical, production values perfectly portrayed.
The downsides....none in particular except for low bass augmentation would be nice (2 x 137L 15" subs in the pipeline).
Acoustic polarity is perfectly portrayed, which is good and bad in a sense.....good when programme is played in correct acoustic polarity, and wrong when inverted.
This is not an expensive system, but in terms of macro/micro dynamics, musicality and realism, this setup plain eats anything I have heard/lived with.
Vinyl sounds so last century when compared to this.
Dan.
My current A system setup is an Asus netbook feeding an Edirol UA-25ex USB soundcard via USB isolator/DC power injector, balanced output from the Edirol directly into Behringer B2031 powered speakers, Foobar with polarity switching plugin, 3 x medical grade screened toroidal isolation transformers.
Dead clean, dead quiet, huge dynamics, pin sharp/precise and perfectly stable placement and depth imaging.
IOW, clean, clear and musical, production values perfectly portrayed.
The downsides....none in particular except for low bass augmentation would be nice (2 x 137L 15" subs in the pipeline).
Acoustic polarity is perfectly portrayed, which is good and bad in a sense.....good when programme is played in correct acoustic polarity, and wrong when inverted.
This is not an expensive system, but in terms of macro/micro dynamics, musicality and realism, this setup plain eats anything I have heard/lived with.
Vinyl sounds so last century when compared to this.
Dan.
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Why would you put a magnet next to a DAC chip, I cant understand such things it is not something you would do in real life...on the same vein, play an LP with a vase on the record...
Digital audio gives a much higher spec than any other and as pointed out on another thread digital recording has been used in studios for many years, and even your analogue records information may have been through numerous DACs.
In my previous post I was not referring to the different playback systems (if you read my posts you will find that I like and enjoy the flawed playback off vinyl) I was referring to the mystique that builds around digital and audio... most sites that offer digital audio add some audiophile magic (cr**) to try and justify USB cables sounding different etc, or HD sounding different to SSD, why does there always have to be some esoteric magic involved, why not just get on and engineer a solution... marketing and mass hallucinations
Off course you could prove me wrong with some links to proper testing (DBT) that shows true audibility of some of these things.......
Hi i do not know you but if i am really honest i have not got musical satisfaction for digital ever, no matter how hard i tried.
With a cheap plastic turntable from Pioneer and a phono preamp from Nad and a LP i am able to get immediately music.
I do not know if it is the cd, the recording, the player or whatever
Digital is "often" very not musical.
And also the ability to give back a very good virtual soundstage with digital is a huge challenge, much more than with analog.
This is my experience at least.
Regards, gino
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The best soundstaging I have heard in my system is off digital, so I don't buy your argument. However a cheap TT arm and cartridge will add all sorts that the ear may interpret as soundstaging. However with some careful tweaking of your system I am sure that digital can be made good for you. But that is maybe for another thread.
Hmmmm, you haven't heard proper digital yet.
Your vinyl system is toward the lower end and sure it sounds musical to you, but I suspect that you are trapped by vinyl distortions/maskings/embellishments.
Good digital gets rid of those distortions and makes playback more musical/real.
Dan.
Strange.. Play digital for less masking effect but use speakers with waveguides that mask recorded details.. all waveguides and horns that I've heard mask details and sometimes create an obviously fake soundstage that is not part of the original recording..
My brother has a small studio and uses JBL LSR28P,no comparison for exposure of recorded detail and soundstage architecture to a well designed speaker that controls diffraction above 1khz, hence, no waveguides allowed..
With a Diffraction noise floor comparing Digital to LP is irrelevant , IME..
My brother has a small studio and uses JBL LSR28P,no comparison for exposure of recorded detail and soundstage architecture to a well designed speaker that controls diffraction above 1khz, hence, no waveguides allowed..
With a Diffraction noise floor comparing Digital to LP is irrelevant , IME..
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Hi and i cannot exclude that actually.
But what i hear also from a quite cheap analog, even some cassette tapes, is musical ... i can listen for long without getting nervous ...
The good sound is both detailed and relaxed.
With digital i can get a strange kind of detail .. but it is not relaxed at all.
Sometimes is quite relaxed ... but not detailed.
For instance i mentioned an old cd player i liked ... the Rotel 965bx.
Good sound but not detailed ... but i could live with that.
Actually i would like to find a dac with the circuit of the 965bx ... i could live without the detail but not with a fatiguing sound at all.
Regards, gino
Hi do you hear the same problems also listening perfectly on axis with the speakers ? 🙄
i tend to prefer speakers that limit the dispersion on a narrow angle ... so i can save a little on the room treatment.
I have the same speakers mentioned and they are very very good when fed rightly, and they have a wave guide.
Look at the FR and distortion ... flat FR and low distortion mean great sound.
at least on axis ...
Regards, gino
According to a Stereophile review that player's using Philips' 3rd generation 'bitstream' DAC, SAA7323. It must be something of a cult player because even 2nd hand on Taobao the price seems rather high for such an ancient machine - ¡¾Ô×°¡¿Ó¢¹ú ROTEL/·ңRCD-965BX CD»úCDM4+SAA7323GP·¢ÉÕö¦Òô-ÌÔ±¦Íø
Gino, I am very impressed by the energy you put into your questions. You are always looking for the next improvement.
Speaking as delicately as I can, you are missing something in your thought process. Perfection is as impossible as the grey matter between our ears.
If we have reason between them, then we can evaluate what is outside of them.
Check your assumptions... best wishes!
Speaking as delicately as I can, you are missing something in your thought process. Perfection is as impossible as the grey matter between our ears.
If we have reason between them, then we can evaluate what is outside of them.
Check your assumptions... best wishes!
Hi and i did not know this.
I should have said that maybe the problem is the model of sound i have in my brain. My reference will be always a nice analog set-up.
And i like when the digital sounds like that reference. Like analog.
So in the end maybe the real issue is a kind of imprinting i have in the brain ... i associate musicality to analog.
In some cases digital sounds very similar and i like it.
Another case being some Rega cd player like the Apollo.
Thanks, gino
P.S. i read something about the implementation of the digital filter ... but i did not understand clearly.
I found the sound quite thick but also musical. It has been a hugely successful player in its days.
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Hi well not exactly. I look for emotion, pleasure, involvement ...
So often i got headache from cds at the point that i have to stop playing them.
I have never got headache from listening to an LP ... maybe noise, scratch ... the fact that i have to leave the sofa to turn the disc ... but i never get fatigue with LPs.
exactly ! instead i see a strange approach of digitalist.
Because it measures good must sound good.
Like they were sure to measure the right thing ... lucky them to be so sure.
I think that in the end what really matters if someone enjoys his set-up.
Thats the only thing that really matters.
I just happen to enjoy analog so much more often than digital.
As i said above maybe i am used to the defects of analog.
But often i find digital so hard and flat that i have to put a tube in the chain to round/soft the sound ... and i can live with it easier.
Regards, gino
Maybe digital has to much detail for you, this is something that has been discussed before and something that I suspect is part of the perceived problem with digital playback for some and what causes the fatiguing sound.
Hi and yes ! this could be indeed the case ... but fatigue is not a nice sensation at all. It can become headache.
As i said in the old days i used to listen to my favorite LPs over and over again ... always with pleasure. With cds it CAN happen ... but rarely.
This must mean something. I do not know what.
Regards, gino
Gino, you are hearing the classic digital problems - it appears that people like marce and Binely either aren't sensitive to these artifacts, or have managed one way or another to avoid having this problem in their playback. Don't let anyone convince that the problems aren't there, that you're just hearing things!!
The good news is that digital playback can be superb, the bad news is that just assembling standard components is very unlikely to get you that. Digital has lots of detail, it comes with any reasonable package - but the downside is that if enough dirt comes along for the ride with that detail then you can never enjoy longer term listening. The typical audio objectivist doesn't "get" that getting rid of this dirt is crucial - which is why, to this day, many people have a yearning for vinyl - the "other crowd" can't accept that this problem exists, so they try to find a solution by claiming that people just prefer vinyl 'distortions'.
While this impasse remains high quality audio will remain in the doldrums, something only a few eccentrics fool around with, 🙁.
The good news is that digital playback can be superb, the bad news is that just assembling standard components is very unlikely to get you that. Digital has lots of detail, it comes with any reasonable package - but the downside is that if enough dirt comes along for the ride with that detail then you can never enjoy longer term listening. The typical audio objectivist doesn't "get" that getting rid of this dirt is crucial - which is why, to this day, many people have a yearning for vinyl - the "other crowd" can't accept that this problem exists, so they try to find a solution by claiming that people just prefer vinyl 'distortions'.
While this impasse remains high quality audio will remain in the doldrums, something only a few eccentrics fool around with, 🙁.
A perceptive comment. I've noticed that people who prefer analog often will say their preferred digital format is DSD. That to some degree mimics the 'softening' (aka noise modulation) effect of analog tape.
yes, if your referring to waveguide or horn speakers..
CD is effective but at the expense of adding negative masking characteristics.. I'll stick with room treatments and use tweeters that are not mounted inside cavities..
I'm sure Feeding them well improves things..
Flat FR is the goal with any speaker.. Lower distortion specs, great too.
But the sound of diffraction, I have not been able to find a way to measure it.. For example I've studied the peaks and valleys of unfiltered FR curves comparing with and without felt on baffles.. I don't see anything different.
but I can certainly hear the improvement with felt attached..
with CD maybe there is some sort of nasty quality that some cant live with to well but the LP faults are more than acceptable..
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