Sometimes I have trouble with search, sometimes not. An important trick, at least for me, if you want to change the search words of a previous search, don't! - start with a refreshed, clean version of the Advanced Search page, otherwise the results don't compute. Probably a browser cache issue ...
kef cerwin - gets kef and cerwin
kef AND cerwin - ditto
kef OR cerwin - as implied
"fast bass" - finds the phrase
Trying to get fancy, with parentheses and such has never worked, nor anything else.
This is an odd analogy, but I like it and agree with it.
If you look at the numbers, there is a lot of support for XRK's analogy. I just totaled the 2015 stats for the top three forum categories and compared them to Jan 2010 from the wayback machine. The first thing that stands out is that Multi-Way is huge. It is the biggest sub-forum on diyAudio at 19.3%. The second thing that stands out is that the smaller forums are the ones with the biggest growth in the last 5 years. Look at the numbers highlighted in green. I think XRK is right in suggesting there is an optimal size for growth and enjoyment, and that Multi-Way is well past that point.
Some people have argued that partitioning Multi-Way will kill it off, but based on its size and what has happened in the last 5 years, I don't see any chance of that happening. I would expect to see growth in the new smaller forums and maybe Multi-Way will become a somewhat smaller, more focused group that is more enjoyable, with a higher S/N ratio. Right now the frenetic pace of Multi-Way is driving away potential contributors (and I don't think I'm the only person who feels this way).
Edit: I used the number of threads in this table rather than the number of posts. The number of posts might be a better indicator of activity. And the number of posts divided by threads might be a good indicator of sustained dialogue. If someone wants to analyze those numbers, the spreadsheet is here
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Nice work, Neil. 
What's missing is the Live Sound category. Not sure when that was split off, but must have been after 2010. It was wildly unpopular in the beginning. There was much wailing and gnashing of teeth when threads got moved there. "Nobody will see my thread!" "How dare you move it". It seems to be chugging along just fine now, but it was slow to get going. There are a lot of DIY members who enjoy the exposure of a large forum.
Audio Circle has at least 5 loudspeaker sections, tho I don't think they are all that well split. AudioKarma has only one (non-commerical). We currently have four or five, depending on how you count.
What's missing is the Live Sound category. Not sure when that was split off, but must have been after 2010. It was wildly unpopular in the beginning. There was much wailing and gnashing of teeth when threads got moved there. "Nobody will see my thread!" "How dare you move it". It seems to be chugging along just fine now, but it was slow to get going. There are a lot of DIY members who enjoy the exposure of a large forum.
Audio Circle has at least 5 loudspeaker sections, tho I don't think they are all that well split. AudioKarma has only one (non-commerical). We currently have four or five, depending on how you count.
I probably only come here once a week now, and I don't think any of the forums are too crowded. I don't see any need for a further split in loudspeakers. Multi-way is any speaker with a crossover, active or otherwise. Why does high efficiency need a forum?
As far as a search tool, google does far better than the site search and some other helpful hints for newbies (like a FAQ?) on how to search topics would be useful.
I don't ordinarily like post rating systems, but I think it could be good if people could upvote posts with truly useful information (but not down vote - don't want to give people the opportunity to be negative and sh*t on others). If people could then hide posts without a certain upvote threshold it would make some of the ridiculously long threads (F5 anyone?) a lot easier to read and eliminate some of the inane chatter.
As far as a search tool, google does far better than the site search and some other helpful hints for newbies (like a FAQ?) on how to search topics would be useful.
I don't ordinarily like post rating systems, but I think it could be good if people could upvote posts with truly useful information (but not down vote - don't want to give people the opportunity to be negative and sh*t on others). If people could then hide posts without a certain upvote threshold it would make some of the ridiculously long threads (F5 anyone?) a lot easier to read and eliminate some of the inane chatter.
Ron, I'm pretty sure that will be coming in the new forum software. Along with other good stuff.
this place needs at least a room/ acoustic treatment section. people who show their diy acoustic panels.
this is one of the most important aspect of any system.
there's 5 different amp section.
imo, treatment is at least as important then amps.
this is one of the most important aspect of any system.
there's 5 different amp section.
imo, treatment is at least as important then amps.
I was content with letting my prior posts in this thread stand, but after reading this post and thinking about it for a little while, this appears to be a bit evasive on the surface.
The problem is, I certainly don't understand why you in particular would voice that opinion with your Altec-based loudspeakers (among other relevant items of discussion that could be made).
I would have otherwise thought that the onus would actually be on your side of the line to prove that it cannot be easily defined (i.e., several people have already tacitly agreed to an efficiency/sensitivity threshold, above).
Why would you choose that argument?
Chris
Of course, but you are simply coming up with your own definition of Multi-Way by ignoring the forum description. The description of the Multi-Way forum is "Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers". "Conventional loudspeaker" means passive crossovers to most people. And it certainly doesn't mean line arrays, and it probably doesn't mean horns.
What people are looking for is a place to discuss some of the unconventional designs -- line arrays, horns and other high efficiency designs, and maybe other unconventional loudspeakers such as open baffle systems. The sub-forum could be a general category that included a number of different design approaches that don't fit the mold of the "conventional loudspeaker". The proposed "HE" category covers a number of these unconventional designs, but maybe the term is too restrictive. But it shouldn't be that hard to come up with a title and description that covers these unconventional designs.
And the idea that active systems can be addressed in Multi-Way simply ignores what a lot of people are doing now with DSP. An increasing number of active systems are using the embedded processors to implement delays, spatial separation, bass enhancement, room compensation, diffraction compensation, etc, and none of these effects are traditionally done with conventional crossovers. For example, I suggested including sound bars in an active systems forum, as most of these sound bar designs are active systems that do a lot of processing to get useful stereo audio from an array of small drivers in a relatively small box. Sales of these things are skyrocketing and some people want to DIY them. Where else would a discussion of sound bar designs go on diyAudio?
I'm totalled baffled by how many of you think multiway is moving at some sort of unmanageable pace. Right now, the bottom of page 1 is a thread last active 28 hours ago. The bottom of page 2 was last active monday morning. So, even if I hadn't been here since Monday, I'd have 40 titles to scan for new threads in multiway. That's too much for people?
If it IS too much for you, I'm curious what you would be doing when those 40 threads were spread across, say, four sub-forums? Pick your favorite two and scan 20 titles, while clicking through more pages to do so, and be grateful you didn't have to click the number 2 or read those other 20 phrases? I'm fine with changes being made; I just really have a hard time understanding the "too much, too fast" reasoning. This forum moves very slow compared to most others I'm familiar with.
If it IS too much for you, I'm curious what you would be doing when those 40 threads were spread across, say, four sub-forums? Pick your favorite two and scan 20 titles, while clicking through more pages to do so, and be grateful you didn't have to click the number 2 or read those other 20 phrases? I'm fine with changes being made; I just really have a hard time understanding the "too much, too fast" reasoning. This forum moves very slow compared to most others I'm familiar with.
So change 'planars and exotics' to 'unconventional designs' and be done with it? For that matter, you could merge fullrangers in there as well...
I just think it would be more useful to have a horns/ high eff section.
there's not many project about horns and they get lost in the midst of multi way.
I very much doubt people would visit less multi way section.
there should be a vote or something. I cannot believe it would generate anything but positive for diyaudio.
this and a damn room acoustic section.
how can a serious hi fi forum does not have a acoustic section?
there's not many project about horns and they get lost in the midst of multi way.
I very much doubt people would visit less multi way section.
there should be a vote or something. I cannot believe it would generate anything but positive for diyaudio.
this and a damn room acoustic section.
how can a serious hi fi forum does not have a acoustic section?
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Chris, I believe that is readily evident. Since there is no apparent line that can be drawn to define high efficiency without creating an argument, I believe that HE is not a suitable sub-forum.
Other than that, there are some good ideas floating around here.
Cal,
I agree on the HE sub-group, that would just be an argumentative exercise on what fits that group. Besides that I find nothing compelling about that topic unless you are a SE amplifier fiend. Amplifier power is not a problem today, so who cares? The only truly HE device I would even put in that category is a compression driver, there isn't any other device that has that type of efficiency. I'm sure that will start an argument but that is exactly what I would expect.
Now that being the case I can still see a couple sub categories of self powered speakers, room acoustics, and perhaps horn loaded, but I guess you could call a horn loaded system these days as an exotic speaker, not much out there anymore for consumers that are horn loaded besides a dome tweeter today. Most should just put their threads in the exotic threads for those looking for the unusual.
The biggest problem many of us have already talked about are the terrible thread titles.
I agree on the HE sub-group, that would just be an argumentative exercise on what fits that group. Besides that I find nothing compelling about that topic unless you are a SE amplifier fiend. Amplifier power is not a problem today, so who cares? The only truly HE device I would even put in that category is a compression driver, there isn't any other device that has that type of efficiency. I'm sure that will start an argument but that is exactly what I would expect.
Now that being the case I can still see a couple sub categories of self powered speakers, room acoustics, and perhaps horn loaded, but I guess you could call a horn loaded system these days as an exotic speaker, not much out there anymore for consumers that are horn loaded besides a dome tweeter today. Most should just put their threads in the exotic threads for those looking for the unusual.
The biggest problem many of us have already talked about are the terrible thread titles.
I think the exact opposite: it's underinclusive. I'd like to see "Software tools" folded up into their respective categories, because in practice that's a forum I just never visit.
I agree with all of that. However, I guess I could kind of see a point to a "Line Array" sub-forum. I expect it would have very limited traffic but it could be a useful resource for fans of line arrays. Maybe it could fit into planars and exotics, but I suspect that someone building, say a CBT will have little in common with somebody DIY'ing a giant ribbon driver.
At the moment there is already confusion between the Fullrange and Multiway fora.
I regularly find threads about co-axials in Fullrange which should surely be in Multiway since they depend on crossovers to work.
I fear subdividing Multiway would just make things worse.
I regularly find threads about co-axials in Fullrange which should surely be in Multiway since they depend on crossovers to work.
I fear subdividing Multiway would just make things worse.
The original post in this thread didn't suggest subdividing Multi-Way--it asked the question whether it was time to add some new categories to Loudspeakers. It was posted in Multi-Way simply because that's where most people put stuff in Loudspeakers that they don't know how to classify.
I think it would help to use some real examples of why the OP asked this question. My last two board designs were an active speaker/soundbar amplifier and a line array amplifier. First look at the active speaker/soundbar amp:
This board has 6 channels of DSP, using an ADAU1701 (same DSP as used in the miniDSP). It's got 4 small class D amps (SSM3302), so it can be used for small multiway speakers with the crossover in the DSP. It's got two subwoofer outputs that could be used with plate amps for driving either subs or woofers. The amps are relatively low power but very high quality, and with those sub outputs you could make some nice 3-way speakers, a nice 4.1 system with 2-way speakers and a sub, or you can make stereo computer monitors with active crossovers. I've got PC software for reading in driver measurement data, designing the crossover and modeling the system output. There will be a "light" but fairly capable version of this software that will be freely available. There is a working prototype of this board that was done with ExpressPCB, but this one was done with DesignSpark, with the intention of making it a freely available open design. There is actually a whole family of amps like this that are planned, with different DSP chips and other types of amps to address different power requirements.
So where do you post about this on diyAudio? It is for making multi-way speakers. And it has digital line-level DSP. And it has class-D amps. And there is a lot of software that goes with it. So I could describe pieces of this project in several at least 4 different forums here. But the primary characteristic is that it is an enabler for active speakers, from sound bars to PC monitor speakers to nice 3-way systems. There are many possibilities for this versatile board, and it would be nice to see what others can do with it. But diyAudio doesn't have an active loudspeaker forum, so I don't feel like there is an appropriate place to share this design and the related software.
The other example is the line array board that I described briefly in the UNIFICATION thread. The board is shown in this attachment:
It's got 20 channels of DSP, with programmable delay on each channel. So you can adjust the apparent curvature of a 2-way line array. Again, I could discuss various pieces of this design in existing diyAudio forums, but the really interesting discussions I would like to see relate to the line array characteristics and room interaction. And there are many other cool topics here, from sizing the power amps in a line array to thermal issues to RF issues with 20 "filterless" class D amplifiers, to line array construction challenges.
So the request to open up areas for discussing active systems and line array issues wasn't a request to split Multi-Way--it was just an attempt to contribute to this board without being disruptive. I think this is exciting stuff--in the last decade active systems and alternate loudspeaker technologies have evolved and opened up some new exciting possibilities for the DIY audio enthusiast. Like I said, I can go away quietly and just keep these designs to myself. But my preference would be to see diyAudio recognize these new DIY possibilities, and make some room for discussing these topics. *sigh*
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