What is the Universe expanding into..

[M Gregg]

Yes,

Its interesting, you have to seem to let the ideas "Gel" in your mind and it does have strange effects..I think its when you are coming to terms with an idea that doesn't make sense until you start to learn more outside the normal reference, a bit like understanding what the ideas actually mean.

This has some strange effects at times- I sometimes drift for over an hour without noticing the time passing, and once when answering the phone, after being jarred out of imagine time, actually had some difficulty speaking clearly for the first few sentences.

Reading this:

if everything was squeezed to one perfectly compressed point/source, there would be no frame of reference within it, so would that point/source's condition before its first motion best be described as both something and nothing?

The problem is, where is the point source located? Think about the map "You are here"..Perhaps it should say you are not here 😀..

Regards
M. Gregg

 

[M Gregg]

The more I think about this..

Something just isn't right,

You have something that appears nowhere.

or

You have something that has always existed and is infinite that exists everywhere..😕 however there can't be an everywhere.

The thought that follows this is, the laws as we understand them can't be true..and what we understand is just an illusion..or a reflection of reality.
I'm interested in other peoples thoughts...

Regards
M. Gregg

 

[M Gregg]

I was driving to work today,

A thought crossed my mind...I looked out of the car at the world around me. Then just for a moment a picture of Ceres and Mars crossed my mind.

Is it me or is Earth to good to be true.. Just look at it!

Everything else looks like this..just for a moment look out of the window...




Regards
M. Gregg

 

[fas42]

The thought that follows this is, the laws as we understand them can't be true..and what we understand is just an illusion..or a reflection of reality.
I'm interested in other peoples thoughts...

Regards
M. Gregg

As mentioned before, thought is the core, the "innerness" and physical "reality" is a "creation", manifestation of thought - not the other way round.

Which means that the physical can be anything you want it to be - dreaming, and virtual reality games are an echo of that process; you playfully create a world in which your mind can explore the possibilities, all the variations of experiencing ...

 

[sofaspud]

If there is no literal reality, why create the term "virtual reality?"

Honestly, I shudder to conceive such philosophy being taken seriously and guiding actions.

Bacon observed long ago, "Nature, to be commanded, must be obeyed." The physical cannot be whatever one wants it to be.

 

[fas42]

Well, to get it to work consistently, and for long term interest in the "experiment" all that's needed is a good set of rules, and agreement by everyone, in their "thoughts", that these rules hold sway, under all normal circumstances. Hence, "The Laws of Physics". Works, 99.999999... % of the time.

Only at the edges does it get a bit screwy - hence the discussion in this thread - and the fields of fundamental physics, and at the other end, the paranormal, which delve into where it gets a bit bizarre, where "common sense" no longer applies. But under all other circumstances everyone shakes hands and agrees to the rules of the game, no matter what happens.

 

[MITsound]

As mentioned before, thought is the core, the "innerness" and physical "reality" is a "creation", manifestation of thought - not the other way round.

Which means that the physical can be anything you want it to be - dreaming, and virtual reality games are an echo of that process; you playfully create a world in which your mind can explore the possibilities, all the variations of experiencing ...

So, if I may quote a famous radiation interference pattern- " I think, therefore I am".

 

[Hiten]

Interpretation of thoughts, innerness, creation, reality, spirituality, consciousness etc. can be confusing.

Universe and things about it would be somewhat easy to comprehend comparatively.

 

[M Gregg]

If there is no literal reality, why create the term "virtual reality?"
Bacon observed long ago, "Nature, to be commanded, must be obeyed." The physical cannot be whatever one wants it to be.

I think the idea is,

reality is created from something.

E.g. if we have a piece of platicine we can make it into a bird a cat a house etc. However the material is always platicine in its many forms. The mind creates.

A bit like there are no laws...we all abide by them..we all work within and around them. Eg you will pay taxes or you must not speed..etc.

In reality of the universe these man made laws do not exist<<or do they? (Virtual reality)

If you follow a code or an ethic is that reality? Or a self imposed virtual one? Its been said in many ways things like we create the chains that bind us..

So, if I may quote a famous radiation interference pattern- " I think, therefore I am".

I used to believe "I think therefore I am" I don't any more! When you stop thinking and just "Be" in the quiet of your mind are you not closer to reality? Perhaps I don't think therefore I am might be closer..
Are words real or virtual?
Is what we believe real or virtual..I'm tending to think we live in a virtual world<<the world we think is real based upon belief and science as we know it now.
The real "world" is out there, however it has no link with what man thinks it should be, its a bit like thinking everyone thinks the same as yourself until a disagreement happens..
I have said it many times and I have listened to others say "its just not fair" well surprise the universe doesn't agree..

I asked someone a while ago why they believed in religion (not to be discussed)..the answer was you have to believe or follow something to experience life..
Now if I agree or not is immaterial its an interesting concept! (I don't regard myself as religious)..however I guess I must have belief..kind of ridiculous realy..🙂
(I think I believe I exist! is one example)

Regards
M. Gregg

 

[M Gregg]

One other point,

Was WW1 or WW2 reality or a virtual one?
There is no argument it happened..however did mankind mould the plasticine?
Did the universe decree it had to be? If everyone had said this is mad lets just stop..would the universe have said no you must continue..
It came from the mind<<enter twilight zone music..thats scary!
It was discussed in the film Forbidden planet...the id..

Morbius you sent your Id out to destroy and kill and these Krell furnaces will provide whatever power it needs to achieve its objective..
Yes young man but the last krell died 2000 centuries ago..

Regards
M. Gregg

 

[TNT]

I've read somewhere, that the original protoparticle universe prior to the Big Bang was perfectly symmetrical.
If this were so, would the bang not also be perfectly symmetrical, resulting in an expanding sphere, with all matter and energy in an ever thinning "rind", surrounding a void at the epicentre of the original bang?
The observable fact of uneven distribution of matter seems to imply the explosion was off the centre, of an infinitely small protouniverse particle.
....snip

I had entertained this reasoning for a while which made me put forward this question to the NASAs "ask an expert" page. The answer was that the person saw the current universe as very symmetrical indeed and did obviously not agree to my observation that I see the current universe as very un-symmetrical. The same as your observation. It surprised me that the milk way etc. can be seen as symmetrical.

//

 

[TNT]

We are probably in the beginning of the "Flat Space Society" stage 😉

//

 

[M Gregg]

TNT,

I am interested in your thoughts about the universe..infinity...and if there was a singularity where did it exist?

Regards
M. Gregg

 

[M Gregg]

Just a passing thought,

If Earth is rare..what does that say about the mind?

How important is the mind within the universe?

In the cold light of day (reality) I should feel very scared..
However we have a system within us that makes us feel invulnerable is this self delusion or is something looking after us? 🙄😀
The gatekeeper for the Id..or perhaps its free will.

The universe has set us free<<has it really...you can't go anywhere yet..and our fait lies with what?
We were free in the beginning..however mankind soon decided we were not fit to be free..we have a lot to learn..
When man went to the moon was he free? (boy do we carry some baggage..😀)

Regards
M. Gregg

 

[MITsound]

Nothing's real, or everything's everything

The Krell might think it's a big thought for an ape brain, but...
Maybe the universe just seems to be expanding.
Maybe it's really creating new space and time from nothing.
Maybe size and location are meaningless to a thing without an outside frame of reference, such as our universe .
In this case, on a grand scale , the universe can be both a point, and infinitely large, as it has nothing beside it for comparing size, or time with. It may only seem impossible to be creating something out of nothing, because we cannot yet grasp that something and nothing may be the same everything.
This one universe, one space, one thing , and one time would greatly simplify things like quantum entanglement ; if one thing here is really the same thing as what we perceive to be over there, the exchange of information instantly doesn't violate any laws at all, as space and time are illusions we assign to our thoughts/perceptions.
Maybe our perception of time itself is malleable, what if the speed of light is truly constant, with only our rate of perception being modified by the observed, to present the illusion of its speed varying as it passes through vacuum, gas, water or glass.
I'm still bothered by neutrinos, but I don't know why, the way they flip flop and fly...

 

[M Gregg]

Maybe size and location are meaningless to a thing without an outside frame of reference, such as our universe .
In this case, on a grand scale , the universe can be both a point, and infinitely large, as it has nothing beside it for comparing size, or time with.

An outside frame of reference....(Energy =) E=mc2

It may only seem impossible to be creating something out of nothing, because we cannot yet grasp that something and nothing may be the same everything.

What about thought?😕 and invention..
You have a point about nothing being the same everything..however that seems to say nothing is something..its back to does nothing have dimensions..That in itself says that possibly you can't have nothing, it can't exist...does that mean infinity has to exist? (if you can't have nothing you must have infinity)

Another thought..

What is a lifetime, why is it limited, why isn't it infinite?

Why does the universe have laws.. I assume because its a physical system..and all physical systems have laws..
(All physical systems have limitations as well)<<<its the esoteric factor that seems to be the "added something" we can make physical systems, however what is the missing bit that we can't grasp?

Regards
M. Gregg

 

[M Gregg]

😀..

Sounds a bit like beyond the universe is an infinite dream..it has no substance....a sea of infinite possibilities..
however it couldn't even be a wavefront...probability or other..

We would still have to exist in something that doesn't exist..and the laws as we know them would still have to be a reflection of something else..
Reality would be an illusion..

Regards
M. Gregg

 

[M Gregg]

Flipping the coin over,

If the universe is all there is,

Then the universe is made of infinity..infinity exists because "Nothing" can't exist..

We would still have to exist in something that doesn't exist physically like a dream..and the laws as we know them would still have to be a reflection of something else..
Reality would still be an illusion..

_____________________________________

The only other possibility is there is infinite energy and infinite mass and energy is alive or has the ability to become alive..the laws as we understand them do not apply..reality is still an illusion..

Thoughts......

Regards
M. Gregg

 

[M Gregg]

I just found this..

BBC - Earth - Why is there something rather than nothing?

I guess its my imagination..
however don't the bubbles that appear sound a bit like thoughts..the mind is blank and a thought pops into your head..
A bit like meditation ..think of nothing..but I can't or I'd be dead..ok focus on the thought

LMAO dreams are new universes in the making.. 😀..every thought is a new bubble...which breaks off and goes into expansion..

Regards
M. Gregg

 

[M Gregg]

😕..fantasy for a brief moment...

There would be some pretty horrific universes if nightmares are anything to go by..the creation of matter by thought.
Perhaps not..😀

😀..like draws like..when you die you go to the universe that is closest to your thoughts..sounds like another film..
We are forging our pathway..we are hear to learn<<<good job its just for fun.
Back to topic I don't want to contemplate this idea..

Regards
M. Gregg