I think we all understand that point thoroughly and accept it for its scientific value.
Though we do it everywhere, the results can be wrong and often are..... pharma drugs is the big volume data base example.... But it still has to be done to determine the truth of the matter as best we can. It is just too hard to do it so thoroughly with all now and future knowledge (?) factored in to make it forever bullet proof.
I would not expect anyone not hired and being paid to spend hours and years in doing such tests on short and longer term trials to give such rigorous lab results here. And, always asking for such seems silly under the circumstances. So a consensus decision is used with limited controls.......
THx-RNMarsh
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BUT --- I'll try again with a HPA I am more certain to be able to drive 300 Ohms at low distortion.
-RNM
No, he punched out a moon landing hoax nutter. You can find it on YouTube.
That's a really lame excuse for not doing even the most basic controls before making extraordinary claims. And for lots of questions (e.g., "can I hear the difference between cap A and cap B?"), it's easy to set up and run the tests.
Funny thing happened when listening to the Chesky System Disc.
I found problems with my system. When I got it right and listened
I could hear, center stage low med large.
1/2 way stage left, father stage left, and off stage left.
Same with right channel.
Then an arc from left to right and right to left.
You can really hear it when it you have your system
working properly.
When your system has problems you'll know.
Especially when you are changing out components
in a system, it's easier than you think to connect
something incorrectly and it still works.
CENTER CHANNEL
Haven't even tried the center channel thing. I should though.
do you use Left + and Right + to one center speaker?
or have to use a pre and a have 5 output amp?
I"ve got a Carver CT-17 preamp...I just need
another amp other than left right I think.
I found problems with my system. When I got it right and listened
I could hear, center stage low med large.
1/2 way stage left, father stage left, and off stage left.
Same with right channel.
Then an arc from left to right and right to left.
You can really hear it when it you have your system
working properly.
When your system has problems you'll know.
Especially when you are changing out components
in a system, it's easier than you think to connect
something incorrectly and it still works.
CENTER CHANNEL
Haven't even tried the center channel thing. I should though.
do you use Left + and Right + to one center speaker?
or have to use a pre and a have 5 output amp?
I"ve got a Carver CT-17 preamp...I just need
another amp other than left right I think.
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I'm still looking for the screamer on the Dark Side of the Moon.
Oh, wait you weren't talking about the Pink Floyd singer.
There's and album/production that is not only amazing,
but has captivated millions and millions of listeners.
I would venture to say even listeners with multiple
copies of the same album/disc/tape/ "media" perhaps.
What is it that makes this so special to so many people?
Oh, wait you weren't talking about the Pink Floyd singer.
There's and album/production that is not only amazing,
but has captivated millions and millions of listeners.
I would venture to say even listeners with multiple
copies of the same album/disc/tape/ "media" perhaps.
What is it that makes this so special to so many people?
What claims did I make? I think you are confusing me with someone else again as to audible claims.
In the DA article I said this at the beginning and then this at the end -->
" Dielectric absorption was investigated as its nature appeared to resemble the subjective description being given to capacitors, esp electrolytic types". These subjective comments were being described by others - in print.
And, at the last paragraph.... "These photographs may help to give another dimension to the subject of D.A. distortion; they aid in providing a feel for the significance of dielectric absorption for audio".
No where have I said I heard this or heard that in listening to caps. Maybe you are thinking of W.Jung or the POOGE chronicles of modifying gear? But you wont find me saying I heard anything. Just measurements/info. and questions.
THx-RNMarsh
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There were several ways... at the preamp output with summing resistors and level control... to just placing a speaker in series with the L and R common before the amp (-). spkr terminal. That gives the crude affect but destroys DF etal. But quick way to get the feel for how solid the center channel image will be without another PA.
I first tried it from Paul Klipsch use of a center speaker between his widely spaced 3-way corner horn system which needed a center "fill".
-RNM
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Here's one that I found with 30 seconds of looking:
Of course, my comments weren't limited to claims about cap sonics.But since you brought that one up...
Thanks for allowing me to clear this up. Those are Walt's Words and opinions and his writing.
FYI -- He wrote the whole thing without me. He also went into his audio listening description in POOGE in detail. wiring changes, super reg power supplies and all. Again, not any of my words in those. The 'we' he refers to are all those people who helped him and gave feedback on mods.
I have never in print said I hear these things. Glad to clear that up.
I dont know anything about his listening methods.
Got any that I penned?
THx-RNMarsh
FYI -- He wrote the whole thing without me. He also went into his audio listening description in POOGE in detail. wiring changes, super reg power supplies and all. Again, not any of my words in those. The 'we' he refers to are all those people who helped him and gave feedback on mods.
I have never in print said I hear these things. Glad to clear that up.
I dont know anything about his listening methods.
Got any that I penned?
THx-RNMarsh
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Though those words were Walt's, I have no reason to think he just totally fabricated any of it. he is a credible person IMO. I think he believes what he wrote. I beleived him. And, so many people did cap upgrades by now, I tend to believe it is audible. But do I hear all these things Walt and other's hear? No, I do not.
In fact, I do not hear a lot of what others perceive. I did a cap comparison once in LA...... With the same mfr and only the plate material changed, it took us 4 hours to reach a consensus on if there was any difference. I'll tell you this... the difference is so small I dont care about it. IMO. Same with super reg PS. And, resistors. For my HPAmp, with the exception of 2 dale resistors, I used Radio Shack resistors and nothing special... electro caps and the THD is down close to -120dB and it sounds fantastic to me. Now, if I were to mfr it, I would use slightly better parts but not the finest on the planet. But that's just me. I am too practical for ultimate. JC owns that realm.
But, I still will not say no one can perceive what I cannot.
THx-RNMarsh
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Hi Richard, Stuart,
Please note that there is a world of difference between someone on the sidelines who likes to talk about this stuff, and those who actually will or have done the work. Being validated is very important to most people who are a hobbyist. There are several hobbyists that I know who have more expertise on their chosen subject that a lot of professionals who work in the field. This shouldn't really surprise anyone.
-Chris
We all know that amateurs, hobbyists will spend a great deal of time and money on anything they determine is important to them. So maybe all that is needed are directions that would allow any serious group of people to execute controlled listening experiments. I would bet that most would be very happy to have guidance in order to do it properly. These people can be deadly serious about their work and how valid it might be. After all, most folks do want to do a job as well as they can. Hobbyists even more so.
Please note that there is a world of difference between someone on the sidelines who likes to talk about this stuff, and those who actually will or have done the work. Being validated is very important to most people who are a hobbyist. There are several hobbyists that I know who have more expertise on their chosen subject that a lot of professionals who work in the field. This shouldn't really surprise anyone.
-Chris
My only comment would be that 'the truth' is not subject to democratic vote. History is full of masses that follow an idea or a belief that is later (when properly researched with 'the scientific method') proved to be false. Like this attached classical.
Jan
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