You should know that they may never measured their cables. So explain it. For example something like: "typical 1 meter X AWG copper will typically have twice the reactance of 1 meter Y AWG silver". So you need to know more to explain the phenomenon, not to quickly say that the phenomenon doesn't exist.
There were times where I have assumed I have been fooling myself... There were times where I feel the opposite.
No, I don't think I belong to any groups you think I'm in. I don't remember if I have ever complained at all. I only getting mad and complain when I found stupidity (may be you too). Except that everyone see things differently.
Wow, you answered the question! Actually I was hoping it is answered by people who has little empirical experience (so using theory only).
So I believe you have tried to find the formula how to properly "present" the cable and the crossover so RFI is not picked up?
I don't agree. At all. Cables DO sound different, because of they different characteristics (serial resistance, capacitance, inductance). More than this, they can make the source to behave differently, (oscillation of a power amp because too high capacitance and not enough phase margin is an example, EMI RFI in the feedback loop an other.) or the various non linearity of speakers enclosures (impedance curves etc.)vs cable serial resistance/inductance.
The mistake is to believe they "have a sound" by themselves, while they just modify the systems behaviors, in different ways, depending of the different systems.
About "measurement is needed", i would say 'only if you need to put numbers on things'. Observation is what we do when we use an oscilloscope, and it is enough to figure out what is happening, most of the time, with a little experience. Listening is an other way to observe. In fact, the most obvious when you are working on "audio" ;-)
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Christophe, you got it right. I love doing artwork as a challenge, and I'm reasonably good at it, but compared to Alex, I am fit only to make his coffee. The man is an artist, beside being electrically good, it also looks extremly neat ond clean. A master, no doubt.
But do remember that he's a professional, he's been doing that for a living for the last 30 years or so. Also, he's well accustomed to satisfying your requirements as best he can, he just might warn you that you may be doing something wrong, but if you insist, he'll do it anyway. Hell of a guy, our Romanian friend.
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No, not exactly the same, I was thinking more in terms of published specs by the manufacturer, in general terms only. Is say THD of say 0.04% really much better than say 0.05%?
OTH, if they use different internal topologies, than other, more subtle differences are only to be expected. It also depends how deep you go with measuruing - even relatively simple tests, like square wave full power drive into 8 Ohms at 10 kHz with 2 uF in parallel can show big differences between two nominaly similar amps. One might do a decent hob of it, while the other may do a terrible job of it, and even trigger the protection circuits.
Into real world speakers, you could get a very different sound from them. In my example, the Philips AH280 (rated at 60 WRMS into 8 Ohms) will deliver a clean but flat (strictly 2D, zero depth) sound, while the other will just sail through it smiling (Marantz 170D - 85 WRMS into 8 Ohms). Just a short look at 10 kHz//2uF nominally 8 Ohms square wave pattern will look completely different, the Philips will look really broken up, while the Marantz will sail through it withut breaking a sweat. Yet the published specs for the Philips are in fact a bit better thn those of Marantz, but listen to them and you'll understand why Philips bought Marantz in its day.
And if you really want to push it, throw in the H/K PA 2400. Rated at twice the power of the Marantz (170 WRMS into 8 Ohms), that is my defintion of being load tolerant, its 10 kHz/8 Ohms//2 uF at Marantz' full power (bat one half its own rated power), you need to look closely at the scope to even notice that it's drving reactive load. But then, it did cost quite a bit more than the otger two.
That is the most sense I've heard from you in a long time.
I just wonder why would it be said that a speaker is not in the center as long as everyone on the planet experiences it or describes it as 'hearing' it as being there. of course we know why it appears to be in the center. But what if something is heard by a lot of people and we do not know why.
This is very much at the center of listening vs science debate over here in DIY-land. If enough different people 'perceive' and describe what they perceive in the same descriptive terms... then it is 'real' or it is actually being 'heard'. Just what is 'there' isnt always easy to explain in scientific terms. It does not change the very real perception that people hear things and then experience it (or interprete it).
And That is what is so often disputed... did you hear something or not. If enough people say they hear a sound source coming from the center (or what ever they perceive thru listening) then i assume it to be really heard... it is the scientific explanation that is needed to explain it. Not to deny the perception.
Oh. and.... IMO.
THx-RNMarsh
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Nope, the disagreement is about testing listening perceptions. Require real controls ('ears only") and the hucksters and charlatans (and their marks) start squealing.
Not true on any account.
Spectrum is 20-20,000 Hz, as usual. If I'm doing it, my standard spectrum is 100 kHz overll, power spec from 20-20,000 Hz, I like to know what going on up there and especially what my harmonic distortion spectrum look like.
Load was clearly stated as 8 Ohm by IHF standards.
Power was quoted as 60 Wrms for the Philips and 85W rms for the Marantz.
Is cable colour important? If so, light brown, VDH's Hullifelx coating, 2x256 strand VDH 352 Hybrid (proprietary mix of silver plated OFC and carbon), length 2x6 m (unforunately dictated by room architecture, I would have liked shorter runs, lenght verified by Ben Duncan's book "High Performance Audio Power Amplifiers".
You're thinking of the south side of Chicago (somewhat analogous to the Parisian banlieus). I live out in a rural area which is quite nice and friendly.
Don't believe everything you see on TV.
You are unlucky with that. the worst I have seen is someone who was getting 17V RMS on their TV aerial, living in the shadow of the BBC crystal palace transmitter. Quite why they put a high gain Yagi on their roof was beyond me. I have never lived anywhere with a decent AM radio signal when I wanted to receive it so only have had a problem once picking up french AM on my phono stage.
It is easy to forget how little grot you need on a connector to form a rectifying junction at RF...
Hucksters and charlatans: Oh my, Oh my! I resent being called a 'charlatan' I want the rest of you to know this. IF you can prove that I am trying to sell you on something that I do not personally believe, and what I apparently have found makes me a better audio designer, then present the evidence. I NEVER lie on this website, as far as I know. I could make a mistake, and sometimes even back someone who I finally realize is not dependable, but I do not do it voluntarily, but because I might fall for a good 'pitch' like so many of the rest of you. Still, I will not back down with what I find 'works' for me in audio design and production.
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