I'd like to make a copy of the earliest Karlson X15 system's tweeter (~1965) which used a 3" open back speaker on a little wood 'klam" structure with a 10 ounce styrofoam cup for back chamber.
my rough X15 have metal K-tubes - this picture is from an owner of the extremely rare early model.
would it come down to say FE83EN vs Faital Pro's 3FE25(/22?)? are those about the strongest drivers in this class?
the owner of this klam says its 3.75" wide, slotted aperture 6", remaining side 4", two 1/2" holes at the bottom of the wings (that may be useful - everything Karlson did which looks crazy has a use😀)
I made a crude cardboard version of this klam and mounted a Panasonic 3" wideband with ~1/2 length of a Pringles can for back chamber. (my camera is missing so can't show it)
the tweeter cutout hole is 2.75" - - I'd probably stick with a K-tube for simplicity and performance but this thing
is kool looking.
It's mounted against the top front of the CTS 15 inch woofer's baffle cutout and probably tied to the first reflector panel.
my rough X15 have metal K-tubes - this picture is from an owner of the extremely rare early model.
would it come down to say FE83EN vs Faital Pro's 3FE25(/22?)? are those about the strongest drivers in this class?
the owner of this klam says its 3.75" wide, slotted aperture 6", remaining side 4", two 1/2" holes at the bottom of the wings (that may be useful - everything Karlson did which looks crazy has a use😀)
I made a crude cardboard version of this klam and mounted a Panasonic 3" wideband with ~1/2 length of a Pringles can for back chamber. (my camera is missing so can't show it)
the tweeter cutout hole is 2.75" - - I'd probably stick with a K-tube for simplicity and performance but this thing
is kool looking.
It's mounted against the top front of the CTS 15 inch woofer's baffle cutout and probably tied to the first reflector panel.
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The 3FE2522 is about the only game in town for 91dB sensitivity. The 25 will require a slightly larger rear chamber than a styrofoam cup. That is too flimsy anyway - try a plastic 7-11 big gulp for a 1 liter chamber. The 22 has a stronger motor. I would go with 8ohm version.
thanks X. all of the Klams I've seen or heard about from Karlson had some venting - most vented into resistive grille cloth from the back chamber including the original KR5 "Rocket". This is the first time I've seen the front chamber vented.
I'd like a shallow regular K for midrange duty - what do you think can be done for high sensitivity with low compression and good sound quality? there should be some 6-8" which can take >100 watt peaks without damage or terrible thermal compression with sensitivity in the high 90s. I have one DeltaPro8a - not as sensitive as L.Cao F6 but certainly physically tougher.
the way this X15's tweeter was mounted, a big gulp would "block" more of the woofer cone - might hit it (? - I've not been to a 7-11 for more than a decade)
I'd like a shallow regular K for midrange duty - what do you think can be done for high sensitivity with low compression and good sound quality? there should be some 6-8" which can take >100 watt peaks without damage or terrible thermal compression with sensitivity in the high 90s. I have one DeltaPro8a - not as sensitive as L.Cao F6 but certainly physically tougher.
the way this X15's tweeter was mounted, a big gulp would "block" more of the woofer cone - might hit it (? - I've not been to a 7-11 for more than a decade)
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There's the Davis tweeters, but they cost about $200 each.
Alternatively, PE sells a Quam tweeter for $8. Not sure how good or efficient it is, but it would be authentic. 😉
Alternatively, PE sells a Quam tweeter for $8. Not sure how good or efficient it is, but it would be authentic. 😉
freddi if the mounting holes are the same diameter, the cts ksn1005a will pop right in there since it had a cts driver for woofer. I have one and just measured it.
if the Quam is 3" then yeah - but the original 3" was open baffle. I clearly remember the sound of a Quam tweeter about 50 years ago in the rear of a DynaQuad setup - they were about all was available at the local electronic parts store, a gold-ish frame, and radial ribs in the hard cone. Seems like mine were 4" (?) Utah's 12" Celesta had a look-alike cone tweeter attached to an extension of the pole piece.
here's the wonderful prototype - I made the little wood klam freehand on a 10" table saw with cheap 200T blade - -too much dust for the middle of a room - that Fountek is gawdawful in the little resonant thin Baltic birch plywood klam.
I would try a piezo but the GRS lemon squeezer has ~12dB peak at 11KHz 😱
here's the lucKy X15's owners original open back speaker with open voice coil
- it must be open as would be crazy to put a back chamber over a back chamber - lol
UNLESS it was for looks
10 ounce cup - - I'd assume the terminal strip indicates an open back frame as terminals applied
to a steel back sealed basket usually just have fiber washers for insulators (????)
that's a vintage cup as the speaker hails from ~1965 ;^) - -cool the paint didn't seem to hurt
here's the wonderful prototype - I made the little wood klam freehand on a 10" table saw with cheap 200T blade - -too much dust for the middle of a room - that Fountek is gawdawful in the little resonant thin Baltic birch plywood klam.
I would try a piezo but the GRS lemon squeezer has ~12dB peak at 11KHz 😱
here's the lucKy X15's owners original open back speaker with open voice coil
- it must be open as would be crazy to put a back chamber over a back chamber - lol
UNLESS it was for looks
10 ounce cup - - I'd assume the terminal strip indicates an open back frame as terminals applied
to a steel back sealed basket usually just have fiber washers for insulators (????)
that's a vintage cup as the speaker hails from ~1965 ;^) - -cool the paint didn't seem to hurt
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Freddy,
I am thinking that maybe what you need is something similar to a classic sealed back 3in cone tweeter - like a Fisher or Sansui from the '70's. I have several antique units that another member gave me (they look old and beaten up) but sound very nice and may be just the ticket.
I am thinking that maybe what you need is something similar to a classic sealed back 3in cone tweeter - like a Fisher or Sansui from the '70's. I have several antique units that another member gave me (they look old and beaten up) but sound very nice and may be just the ticket.
probably - but I want one to do 1200Hz xover - I've seen some vintage units on ebay - a reproduction of the CTS ring radiator probably won't go low enough. - might not be able to make the goofy thing w/o a table saw - then its pretty much freehand - it'll need six coats of shellac up front.
I'd like a truly useful midrange version of the XKi that would not shame itself vs a midhorn.
I'd like a truly useful midrange version of the XKi that would not shame itself vs a midhorn.
Speaking of K-tubes, is the inside of the tube a constant diameter? I was thinking about turning a pair out of walnut. Is there a program that I can use to figure the length, inside diameter, and flair cut out?
You know you want that Quam. You can't go wrong, with a name like Quam. 😀
Quam 30C25Z8OT 3" Moisture Resistant Speaker 8 Ohm
There's a Misco cone tweet Model # RDC3T-A that claims to be 94 db 300-10k.
Quam 30C25Z8OT 3" Moisture Resistant Speaker 8 Ohm
There's a Misco cone tweet Model # RDC3T-A that claims to be 94 db 300-10k.
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re:Quam -looks good other than ribs going the "wrong way"😀 - some of the Misco with red water proof cone never seem to have much HF extension. As mentioned before I well remember the old made in US hard-curvelinear-crosshatched paper cone Quam tweeter with sealed back - didn't seem all that wonderful in the 1960s on my EICO ST70 hahaha. Do you think that PE Quam on a lossy klam would keep up with an 8 ohm 1960's CTS musical instrument 15 employed in X15? (calculates ~100.9dB with WT2) - - the X15 owner guy with this wood klam has the same CTS but his has 13.7 DCR so must be a 16 ohm version which would help match to a typical weak 3" radio speaker.
I'm lustin' on that Misco ! - do I have to order a minimum of 100 to get two?
I'm lustin' on that Misco ! - do I have to order a minimum of 100 to get two?
how about a three inch titanium diaphragm in an EV DH1A with either a nominal 2" exit (1.94") or remove the extender nose cup and have a 1.4" exit then slap on a K-Tube and you got quality sound. I like mine better than any horns I have tried so far. These work very well in the near field. I like my tubes with a double cut away design best rather than the classic single cutaway. The attached photo shows both a single cutaway and a double cutaway Karlson K-Tube. Best regards Moray James.
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gotta love the clothespin ! - the original for an EV 12" looks like its ready either to bite or QUACK !!
which way do you orient the slot Moray? sideways? up-down? does the tube stay parallel to the floor? (I'm real happy with the asymmetric style K-tube)
btw - Misco makes that 2.4 ounce magnet slug look real big in their photo
which way do you orient the slot Moray? sideways? up-down? does the tube stay parallel to the floor? (I'm real happy with the asymmetric style K-tube)
btw - Misco makes that 2.4 ounce magnet slug look real big in their photo
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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Here is a 3in sealed back Fisher. I can't remember the drive level but think it is the typical 0.707v at 0.5m so looks like it may be about 88dB sensitive. Sounds nice though.
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some of those old paper tweeters are very sweet sounding - here's a K-tube with a B&C vs a "recent"(~ decade old) copy of the Peerless 2.5" cone tweeter
equal drive - I run the B&C/K-tube without attenuation on top of a K12 loaded with 12pe32
equal drive - I run the B&C/K-tube without attenuation on top of a K12 loaded with 12pe32
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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The Transylvania Power Company "The Tube", as a one-piece cast aluminum item, does have a narrowing from throat to mouth of ~2°. IMO, this is only a taper introduced to facilitate de-moulding and is likely not a functional part of the design.
The aluminum is 0.125" thick on these, so the slot on the outside of the tube can be defined by a half-ellipse of dimensions x=3.927" and y=10.6" (tube length being half of that, 5.3", without considering the base plate thickness also of 0.125").
I don't know about turning a tube. Would any wood be stable enough to hold the shape? The tube wall certainly should not be too thick. Laminated wood veneer is one proven way to make a wood tube.
re: the 2 degree downward taper of the Transylvania Power Company "The Tube", when I asked Walter Alan Zintz, he said it had to do with following Karlson's patent idea (the inclined plane feature of Ks) - in practice I don't think it matters much vs a straight tube
and may have been to facilitate pulling off the mold.
Carl makes his K-tubes with maple veneer layers glued up on a form - says they're pretty dead.
this "internal" K-tube apparently can tilt and was made of layers of veneer.
- I think each layer was cut to size before glue-up
http://imageshack.us/a/img844/6743/hak8.jpg
IG - have you thought of trying a mini-klam for a one inch compression driver's lens?
speaking of vintage style cone tweeters, here's an interesting look at two reproductions of the old "phenolic riing tweeter" with quite different parameters
AR4x tweeters - An Investigation of two PRT types as replacements - Mods, Tweaks, and Upgrades to the Classics - The Classic Speaker Pages Discussion Forums
and may have been to facilitate pulling off the mold.
Carl makes his K-tubes with maple veneer layers glued up on a form - says they're pretty dead.
this "internal" K-tube apparently can tilt and was made of layers of veneer.
- I think each layer was cut to size before glue-up
http://imageshack.us/a/img844/6743/hak8.jpg
IG - have you thought of trying a mini-klam for a one inch compression driver's lens?
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
speaking of vintage style cone tweeters, here's an interesting look at two reproductions of the old "phenolic riing tweeter" with quite different parameters
AR4x tweeters - An Investigation of two PRT types as replacements - Mods, Tweaks, and Upgrades to the Classics - The Classic Speaker Pages Discussion Forums
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Fred: I rotate mine 90 degrees to the photo of Bob's tubes you posted so the solid portions of the tube are horizontal tubes centred at ear level directed at either my head or shoulders depending on the width they are apart this way the cutaway portion of the tube is in the vertical plane. Tubes are parallel to the floor, I never tilt them up or down unless I am doing a demo on some other system and there is no other option and I just want the owner to get an idea of his rig with the tubes.
The DH1A are large and they weigh a lot but you can run them 2" or 1.4". We just took the noes cups of my brothers DH1A and they were very tight bent every single machine screw all six of them, thought a couple might actually break, bent the allen wrench too but in the end they all came out clean. Best regards Moray James.
Wood veneers can be obtained at 1/28" thickness so if you build and later cut on a mandrel you should have a pretty stable tube. I have been using single wrap paper tubes with tiny thin wire hoops to keep the tube round. The look like crap but they don't store any energy and they sound excellent so good I just can't imagine I could fabricate anything better sounding. I suppose if you really played them very loud they would crap all over the place but you could not stand to be in the room at those levels so to me it does not really matter. I think that paper mache would make a nice tube. I might try that some time. Best regards Moray James.
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