Hello all,
I've posted similar threads in pink fish media and audioasyslum but third time lucky.... Hope this is the best section for posting.
I'm just getting into the hobby and have been directed towards tube amps, horns, full-range drivers and cabinets, classic turntables, magazines like Sound Practices etc. -- All older topographies. However, unsurprisingly I'm yet to hear these in action.
I wanted to know if anyone in the London/South West areas (as well as Los Angeles also) would be kind enough to show off their systems to someone wanting to get started down the right path.
Thanks in advance,
Joel
I've posted similar threads in pink fish media and audioasyslum but third time lucky.... Hope this is the best section for posting.
I'm just getting into the hobby and have been directed towards tube amps, horns, full-range drivers and cabinets, classic turntables, magazines like Sound Practices etc. -- All older topographies. However, unsurprisingly I'm yet to hear these in action.
I wanted to know if anyone in the London/South West areas (as well as Los Angeles also) would be kind enough to show off their systems to someone wanting to get started down the right path.
Thanks in advance,
Joel
Audio reproduction has made quite a bit of progress since the days when tube amps, horns, full-range drivers and cabinets, classic turntables were the only option.
Here's a list of books I can wholeheartedly recommend.
Focal Press: Acoustics and Psychoacoustics: 4th Edition (Paperback)
Focal Press: Sound Reproduction: The Acoustics and Psychoacoustics of Loudspeakers and Rooms (Paperback)
Loudspeaker Design Cookbook Paperback -- by Vance Dickason
Here's a list of books I can wholeheartedly recommend.
Focal Press: Acoustics and Psychoacoustics: 4th Edition (Paperback)
Focal Press: Sound Reproduction: The Acoustics and Psychoacoustics of Loudspeakers and Rooms (Paperback)
Loudspeaker Design Cookbook Paperback -- by Vance Dickason
This is a DIY forum, so I would say: there's nothing like getting your feet wet!
Of course, you can have a listen to somebody else's system, but if it's one you built yourself, it will be even sweeter, and maybe more suited to your listening environment.
Browse around the forum, there's plenty to look for, plenty designs around. Pick one, and start cutting some wood, buying drivers. Don't go overboard with your first build and see where it takes you.
It is a journey!
Of course, you can have a listen to somebody else's system, but if it's one you built yourself, it will be even sweeter, and maybe more suited to your listening environment.
Browse around the forum, there's plenty to look for, plenty designs around. Pick one, and start cutting some wood, buying drivers. Don't go overboard with your first build and see where it takes you.
It is a journey!
Reading as much as you can certainly won't hurt - unless you're as intellectually challenged / lazy as I 
- but neither would taking opportunities to actually hear a range of equipment from all ages of the craft. The gas money, and perhaps liquid refreshment bribes required to elicit invitation to the closest DIY fanatics could easily be as important an investment as all the textbooks on the subject.
- but neither would taking opportunities to actually hear a range of equipment from all ages of the craft. The gas money, and perhaps liquid refreshment bribes required to elicit invitation to the closest DIY fanatics could easily be as important an investment as all the textbooks on the subject.Interesting POV - how many of us plebes have the wherewithal to do that - and for those that do, by how much would that restrict our choices of recordings to manipulate to our own standards?
As I commented in another current thread re "critical" listening, when I feel an emotional connection to a particular recording/performance, a lot of technical flaws can be endured- if not forgiven - but a "perfect" recording ( whatever the feck that might be) can still leave me wanting of emotional involvement. For example, I'll likely make even more enemies for saying this, but even though neither had an ideal carefree life, I could never really get into Ella Fitzgerald, of whom I can never remember hearing a poor performance, but even at her lowest ebb Billy Holiday made me feel and believe every drop of her passion and anguish.
How exactly does that relate to the metaphor of "cooking / taste" that I earlier choose to pursue ? Clearly not well, but the point to on which I was trying to construct an arc was even if " perfect" recordings abounded, the number of audio system capable of reproducing them in all venues is probably very small, and the only way the OP can determine what works for him/ her is to experience not only a range of them, but of course as much live music as possible - which we all know is a universally flawless standard against which all reproduction must be measured.
That last part was sarcasm
As I commented in another current thread re "critical" listening, when I feel an emotional connection to a particular recording/performance, a lot of technical flaws can be endured- if not forgiven - but a "perfect" recording ( whatever the feck that might be) can still leave me wanting of emotional involvement. For example, I'll likely make even more enemies for saying this, but even though neither had an ideal carefree life, I could never really get into Ella Fitzgerald, of whom I can never remember hearing a poor performance, but even at her lowest ebb Billy Holiday made me feel and believe every drop of her passion and anguish.
How exactly does that relate to the metaphor of "cooking / taste" that I earlier choose to pursue ? Clearly not well, but the point to on which I was trying to construct an arc was even if " perfect" recordings abounded, the number of audio system capable of reproducing them in all venues is probably very small, and the only way the OP can determine what works for him/ her is to experience not only a range of them, but of course as much live music as possible - which we all know is a universally flawless standard against which all reproduction must be measured.
That last part was sarcasm
Getting back to the original question:
There really isn't a "right path", just a few crisscrossed trails with different views at the top... Part of the fun of DIY is trying out a lot of varied things.
Yet as this is the Full Range forum, of course you will get full range recommendations. Even within that restricted genre, there is quite a bit of variety. A Lowther in a backhorn is going to sound very different than a 3" Tangband fullrange in a little bass reflex box.
Horns are also very diverse. There's backhorns, multi-way front horns, corner horns, tapped horns, Voigt pipes, etc.
RE amps: Tube amps are are my preference, but don't rule out gainclones or SS in general. 15 - 20 years ago it was possible to buy vintage tube amps for dirt cheap on ebay. With some work, you could end up with a very resolving and lifelike amplifier for less than $100 that sounded better than many $1000+ SS amps, so it was a good bang for buck, regardless of other considerations. Today there are other options.
There really isn't a "right path", just a few crisscrossed trails with different views at the top... Part of the fun of DIY is trying out a lot of varied things.
Yet as this is the Full Range forum, of course you will get full range recommendations. Even within that restricted genre, there is quite a bit of variety. A Lowther in a backhorn is going to sound very different than a 3" Tangband fullrange in a little bass reflex box.
Horns are also very diverse. There's backhorns, multi-way front horns, corner horns, tapped horns, Voigt pipes, etc.
RE amps: Tube amps are are my preference, but don't rule out gainclones or SS in general. 15 - 20 years ago it was possible to buy vintage tube amps for dirt cheap on ebay. With some work, you could end up with a very resolving and lifelike amplifier for less than $100 that sounded better than many $1000+ SS amps, so it was a good bang for buck, regardless of other considerations. Today there are other options.
Which is precisely why I suggested that the quickest way for Joel to get a sense of what any of these types of gear sound like in concert, what he likes, and perhaps even the space required for those results is to experience as many as he can.
Call it taste testing, field research, whatever metaphor you choose. That you can't get by reading any of us here, who are happy to expound for as long as anyone can endure as to why we (currently) think XYZ
Call it taste testing, field research, whatever metaphor you choose. That you can't get by reading any of us here, who are happy to expound for as long as anyone can endure as to why we (currently) think XYZ
A lot of it depends on the type of music listened to. You may notice, for instance, that certain types of music get mentioned a lot by users of certain types of equipment. Some of this could be taste, some could be that a type of equipments restricts what one listens to.
Are you a listener to studio recorded albums, concert recordings, jazz, classical, rock, etc?
Some of that will help point towards what may suit you. If you listen to a lot of live music, you can usually spot fairly quickly if a system sounds right. The next step is to try it in your own room and hear how it sounds there.
Are you a listener to studio recorded albums, concert recordings, jazz, classical, rock, etc?
Some of that will help point towards what may suit you. If you listen to a lot of live music, you can usually spot fairly quickly if a system sounds right. The next step is to try it in your own room and hear how it sounds there.
Your premise is that common recordings and stereo do reproduce the sound field of a live venue. That's impossible. The mixing and mastering engineer sitting in his acoustically treated control rooms decides how a recording will sound.
We don't but the reproduction methods and tools are fairly well known. They are not arbitrary.
pnix - have you yet enlightened us as to the precise make up of the authoritative playback system that you'd cite as a benchmark?. As I think you've made your position on Full Range drivers quite clear - bemused disdain at the category and its adherents in general?- some of us might find that interesting. Unless you think that's irrelevant - as long as it's ABFR - you're a bright man, I should think you could figure than out.
Your point being? Define the one true method of perfectly accurate reproduction of a recording that is universally applicable, and achievable with current science and engineering.
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