Alpair choice?
I am brand new to this site; just signed up yesterday.
I am considering Markaudio: Alpair 6A-P, 6MA, 7P or 7A. I have been reading various reviews and comments. I'm thinking I might like the 7P as a first choice. What are the first impressions on this "new" paper fullrange driver? As compared to the metal version? As compared to the 6 models; both paper and metal versions?
I am brand new to this site; just signed up yesterday.
I am considering Markaudio: Alpair 6A-P, 6MA, 7P or 7A. I have been reading various reviews and comments. I'm thinking I might like the 7P as a first choice. What are the first impressions on this "new" paper fullrange driver? As compared to the metal version? As compared to the 6 models; both paper and metal versions?
I think it's more beneficial to dig a little deeper with a few questions regarding application before answering that:
- room size/listening distance/ dimension constraints on enclosures? - affects not only driver recommendation, but potentially enclosure design
for example, the A6P makes a great little near field / computer monitor etc, and in a very small room can be a big improvement over TV's built-in speakers, but I wouldn't try a pair in a 400ft^2 room for anything other than background
- musical tastes / listening levels - also very important - for example light acoustic / folk, etc at mild SPLs ( sub 70dB) places much less demand on bandwidth and excursion limitations that characterize even the "best" of the smaller FR drivers, than say Pictures at an Exhibition at THX reference level.
Just 'cause it appears obvious, doesn't make it safe to assume it's understood by all
Re the 6s vs 7s, I'd be inclined to suggest the 7s in most cases, but I'm not sure if enough folks have had opportunity to directly compare the new 7Ps to metals - I've not yet - so between those 2 would be a tougher call.
Between the 10Ps and .3 metals, I initially preferred the papers by a fair margin, but after hearing a well broken-in pair of the metals, I could probably be quite happy with either, and wonder if the same would be the case with the 7s. .
- room size/listening distance/ dimension constraints on enclosures? - affects not only driver recommendation, but potentially enclosure design
for example, the A6P makes a great little near field / computer monitor etc, and in a very small room can be a big improvement over TV's built-in speakers, but I wouldn't try a pair in a 400ft^2 room for anything other than background
- musical tastes / listening levels - also very important - for example light acoustic / folk, etc at mild SPLs ( sub 70dB) places much less demand on bandwidth and excursion limitations that characterize even the "best" of the smaller FR drivers, than say Pictures at an Exhibition at THX reference level.
Just 'cause it appears obvious, doesn't make it safe to assume it's understood by all
Re the 6s vs 7s, I'd be inclined to suggest the 7s in most cases, but I'm not sure if enough folks have had opportunity to directly compare the new 7Ps to metals - I've not yet - so between those 2 would be a tougher call.
Between the 10Ps and .3 metals, I initially preferred the papers by a fair margin, but after hearing a well broken-in pair of the metals, I could probably be quite happy with either, and wonder if the same would be the case with the 7s. .
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OK, thanks! More info: Nearfield in a small room is my only listening environment. High SPL, x-max, power handling, etc. are not issues here. I listen to most types of music but primarily acoustic jazz, Baroque and small chamber ensembles. I do go for full/large symphonic orchestra classical at times. Also, every now and then I do prog. and classical rock. I will not be doing a full range (only). I want a very wide band driver to cover from 200 to maybe 500 Hz (driver size dependent) X-over on the low end up to say 4500 to maybe 6000 Hz X-over on the high end. My main goal here is to have inner detail, highly accurate reproduction (resolution; fine nuance; how ever you wish to describe it) in the price range $50 to maybe $150 per driver. I'm not looking at Excel, Revelator, Accuton, etc. price ranges. I will use the full range drivers as one would normally use a regular mid-range. They will be "closed box" and will front mount on the same baffle as the low-woofer and super-tweeter.
I'd dare say that most of the likely candidates from the MA range would not require a tweeter - certainly not the A6M. From personal experience, I can heartily recommend the A7.3 (A) for what you've now described as something we'd refer to as a "FAST". In the 200Hz or so range that is commonly used for those, going active with line level XOs is definitely worth looking at.
I run a pair of Frugelhorns with A7.3's and a small sub. For the music you mentioned (which is similar to my taste) my set-up is great. I also have a pair o CHP-70's in slim golden ratio cabinets. Again, these are outstanding in my opinion. They really shine for acoustic guitar and vocals.
I have many speakers from which to choose: 2-ways, 3-ways, vintage JBLs, ADCs, Dynacos, Pioneer HPM-40s, and more. The MarkAudio full range speakers keep up with or surpass any of my other speakers in many ways.
I have many speakers from which to choose: 2-ways, 3-ways, vintage JBLs, ADCs, Dynacos, Pioneer HPM-40s, and more. The MarkAudio full range speakers keep up with or surpass any of my other speakers in many ways.
I have considered domes but I want to cross from woofer to full/mid in the 200 to 500 Hz range; preferably 400 Hz or lower so even 3 in. domes can't easily do this. The MA Alpair 7P seems to be more flat than say the 6P, 6A, 7A, etc. I am most interested in the 7P (at least; I'm strongly leaning that way). Unfortunately; (so far) there doesn't seem to be very much 3rd party info, reviews, testing, etc. Many people seem to like the 6P; I'm hoping the 7P will be similar except less mid-band dip, higher output, lower X/O, etc.
Thanks for the inputs thus far!
Thanks for the inputs thus far!
You really should look at PRV 5MR450NDY if crossing 300Hz or higher. Wonderful sounding paper cone with reach to 15khz. Excellent low harnonic distortion and can get very very loud and still sound clean. 95dB sensitivity and 225 watts rms. a very natural sounding driver.
I didn't specifically mention this earlier but I am not too concerned about "beaming" or dispersion so using a FR CONE driver up to and beyond say 4500 Hz won't bother me. I'm almost always doing my "critical" listening in the nearfield as one would with studio monitors, etc. "Aiming" the main axis straight at my 58 year old ears helps me greatly above 10KHz! (i. e. I'll be well within +/- 15 degrees horizontal and vertical almost always).
I am not ready to set my findings in stone as we still have more trials, but have done considerable listening.
The A7p are not what i was expecting.You know how drivers with cone materials tend to get stereotyped?
The A7p is closer to the metal sterotype than the metal cone A7x is. It is not as forgiving. If your recording has a high frequency edge it will take you right to the edge (Bob B called it s bright top end). If you play too loudly it will take you over. Not at all like the A6p and A10p which have a very nice "vintage" top end. and were leading expectations of what we'd get in the A7p.
We have a feeling that this is amplifier related to some extent, and that they may be a good match for SE amplifiers. I got a bunch of SE amps in house now, but need to sort out a hum issue with my DAC before i can further evaluate.
An interesting thing about the SE amps: In FH3 the FE126 is the typical goto driver. One person on listening to the A7p said that if i hadn't told him which drivers were played he said he would have guessed a Fostex with the rough edges smoothed off (and more bass) ... they do do bass well.
So at this point i'd give the advantage to the A7.3eN (given my tatses, room, and associated kit).
dave
The A7p are not what i was expecting.You know how drivers with cone materials tend to get stereotyped?
The A7p is closer to the metal sterotype than the metal cone A7x is. It is not as forgiving. If your recording has a high frequency edge it will take you right to the edge (Bob B called it s bright top end). If you play too loudly it will take you over. Not at all like the A6p and A10p which have a very nice "vintage" top end. and were leading expectations of what we'd get in the A7p.
We have a feeling that this is amplifier related to some extent, and that they may be a good match for SE amplifiers. I got a bunch of SE amps in house now, but need to sort out a hum issue with my DAC before i can further evaluate.
An interesting thing about the SE amps: In FH3 the FE126 is the typical goto driver. One person on listening to the A7p said that if i hadn't told him which drivers were played he said he would have guessed a Fostex with the rough edges smoothed off (and more bass) ... they do do bass well.
So at this point i'd give the advantage to the A7.3eN (given my tatses, room, and associated kit).
dave
Thanks for the reply
Hangover today, bear with me
As far as the 'ss' in vocals (for want of a better description), which would you say has the least? its just a thing that bugs me with some FR's. With the A7P it sounds to me (from Bob's and your description) that the rise is beyond that region
Hangover today, bear with me
As far as the 'ss' in vocals (for want of a better description), which would you say has the least? its just a thing that bugs me with some FR's. With the A7P it sounds to me (from Bob's and your description) that the rise is beyond that region
Regardless of which alpair 7 I decide on; I will be using a super tweeter. I am using a Fostex right now in my "office" system and totally love the sound. Very clean and great transients (but without any harshness, etc.). The trick is crossing over quite high. I'm thinking 6KHz as a starting point; hopefully, this would solve the FR overly bright issue!???
I am using the Fostex FT17H (the cheap one, about $50). I spent a great deal of time traveling back and forth to Japan where I was first introduced to fullrange. This has always been a pretty big deal over there. The best sounding systems used super tweeters for at least the top octave (10KHz and above). I don't want a true FR; I want to use a FR driver as a very wide band (i. e. extended range) midrange. I am sensitive to crossovers between 1KHz and 3KHz; never liked them. Personal preference; I think these frequencies are the most important, especially for piano and female singing voice.
I'm sorry, I thought you were using a Fostex on the bottom. I have used the FT17H any number of time when I needed help above 5-6kHz. Great driver for the price. I personally find the Alpairs and the TB W8-1772 have plenty on top that I don't need a tweeter. I really like the FF225WK + FT17H combo. I am now using a 2-way with the XO at 200Hz. Whole new world. A7.3 + RSS315HF4.
Bob
Bob
That is unfortunately true for most drivers but especially true for full range drivers. Most wide-band fans don't believe in measurements but only in listening which is of course a ridiculous position in the light of available scientific studies. Manufacturers take advantage of that situation and don't offer much meaningful data (e.g. off axis response data) besides T/S parameters. This has been the status quo now for decades and it doesn't look like it will change any time soon.
If you want good data then you have to produce it yourselves. Two examples:
Loudspeaker Raw Driver Measurements
https://mehlau.net/audio/full-range-radiation-patterns/
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