PE is having a sale on the Fountek FE-83 for $7 - and this got me thinking... Is it possible to use these in an array?
My SO decided she wants to change my plans for the Mains in the living room to something with a smaller footprint... specifically a wall mounted speaker pair. We're getting a new tv come black friday (SO wants a 65") - and due to the odd arrangement of the living space, this creates serious problems cramming two towers next to the small wall the t.v. will be mounted to, much less squeezing my recent subwoofer I created in.
Problems:
-I've never even considered an Array before
-this will be wall mounted and shouldn't be too large (not floor standing) nor stick out past the tv (too much)
-will I need tweeters or build a circuit to compensate for any issues the Founteks might have?
- how do I couple this with a center channel (of which I'd like to still build)?
I was |__this close__| to cutting wood for an interpretation of the BAMTM speakers, now I'm at a loss for how to approach a wall mounted decent sounding speaker pair?
~ ross
Fountek:
Fountek FE83 3" Full Range Driver 8 Ohm
My SO decided she wants to change my plans for the Mains in the living room to something with a smaller footprint... specifically a wall mounted speaker pair. We're getting a new tv come black friday (SO wants a 65") - and due to the odd arrangement of the living space, this creates serious problems cramming two towers next to the small wall the t.v. will be mounted to, much less squeezing my recent subwoofer I created in.
Problems:
-I've never even considered an Array before
-this will be wall mounted and shouldn't be too large (not floor standing) nor stick out past the tv (too much)
-will I need tweeters or build a circuit to compensate for any issues the Founteks might have?
- how do I couple this with a center channel (of which I'd like to still build)?
I was |__this close__| to cutting wood for an interpretation of the BAMTM speakers, now I'm at a loss for how to approach a wall mounted decent sounding speaker pair?
~ ross
Fountek:
Fountek FE83 3" Full Range Driver 8 Ohm
These would make great LAs. They are not too efficient but they become so in an array. You don't need tweeters with these but you will need a sub. Make the cabs 50hz however tall your screen is and fit as many in there as you can.
Fantastic!
do I need to concern myself with contouring the cab (slight bend left/right or U shape outwards and back)?
How far apart should each speaker be from the other?
do I need to concern myself with contouring the cab (slight bend left/right or U shape outwards and back)?
How far apart should each speaker be from the other?
Hi,
Its doable but not remotely simple, line arrays are complicated.*
Anybody who tells you different is generally pretty clueless.
They won't work well with "normal" centre channels.
Wall mounting is just about the worst way of using box speakers.
I'd look at : Zaph|Audio - ZA5 Speaker Designs with ZA14W08 woofer and Vifa DQ25SC16-04 tweeter
rgds, sreten.
*Except for the simple PA types that do their job of
throwing speech intelligibility extremely well, but
sound utterly hideous when used domestically.
Its doable but not remotely simple, line arrays are complicated.*
Anybody who tells you different is generally pretty clueless.
They won't work well with "normal" centre channels.
Wall mounting is just about the worst way of using box speakers.
I'd look at : Zaph|Audio - ZA5 Speaker Designs with ZA14W08 woofer and Vifa DQ25SC16-04 tweeter
rgds, sreten.
*Except for the simple PA types that do their job of
throwing speech intelligibility extremely well, but
sound utterly hideous when used domestically.
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Sreten,
Would you care to elaborate for me? How can I make this a viable option? where do I begin (is there free modelling software? or tables?)?
would you make a suggestion of any sort as to what to pair with or design for a center channel?
if all of this is too complicated, can you recommend a project to look at for a wall mounted speaker (in wall isn't an option)? My forum searches and internet searches have been fruitless so far.
thank you for your help
~ross
**edit** the Zaph audio Array is way way to deep for my purposes. I'd prefer to keep the array/speakers to the specs of the television (H: 34.5" D: ~ 4")
Would you care to elaborate for me? How can I make this a viable option? where do I begin (is there free modelling software? or tables?)?
would you make a suggestion of any sort as to what to pair with or design for a center channel?
if all of this is too complicated, can you recommend a project to look at for a wall mounted speaker (in wall isn't an option)? My forum searches and internet searches have been fruitless so far.
thank you for your help
~ross
**edit** the Zaph audio Array is way way to deep for my purposes. I'd prefer to keep the array/speakers to the specs of the television (H: 34.5" D: ~ 4")
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Can you eq these arrays?
If not, you will need drivers with a rising response to combat the attenuation due to comb filtering.
If not, you will need drivers with a rising response to combat the attenuation due to comb filtering.
I do have some capabilities to EQ them via the receiver... I haven't plaid around with that function too much, though.
Can you elaborate on what a rising response is?
Can you elaborate on what a rising response is?
Hi,
Don't know if you have this paper already, maybe of help. Some designguidelines for line arrays: http://www.audioroundtable.com/misc/nflawp.pdf
Good luck, looks like an interesting project!
Don't know if you have this paper already, maybe of help. Some designguidelines for line arrays: http://www.audioroundtable.com/misc/nflawp.pdf
Good luck, looks like an interesting project!
Wow, a lot of information to take in there! Very informative and complex... Some of it was a little dense and will require me to break out my calculator...
I don't suppose if you know of any low cost software for modelling besides:
CBT Calculator
I don't suppose if you know of any low cost software for modelling besides:
CBT Calculator
No, I don't know any low cost software to model Line Array's. Thanks for the CBT calculator! I hope this will make the abstract white paper theory more visual. This is another interesting take at line arrays: Don Keele's CBT (Constant Beamwidth Transducer) Page
The line array's i heard were far from perfect with respect to the white paper and seem to fucntion well. There is some room for simplification / building without powertappering and some combfiltering will not sound that bad...
The line array's i heard were far from perfect with respect to the white paper and seem to fucntion well. There is some room for simplification / building without powertappering and some combfiltering will not sound that bad...
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EQ'ing line arrays to combat comb filtering only works if the listener stays in one single spot; move a few inches left or right, and the EQing will be creating more problems than solving them, especially if it's done at higher frequencies.
So how bad is this combfiltering when it's above 5,6,7 or 10 kHz? If you look at a McIntosh XRT2K speaker. Center to center distance for the tweeters is around 2 inch. If you measure the speaker it sure would be combfiltering bonanza. If you listen to them it's not that bad at all/ not like duck for cover screachy, screachy high's 🙂.
McIntosh XRT2K Speaker, Line Array Speaker System XRT2K McIntosh, 3 Way Speaker
Some deviation from the perfect line array theory is needed to make a functional one for use at home.
McIntosh XRT2K Speaker, Line Array Speaker System XRT2K McIntosh, 3 Way Speaker
Some deviation from the perfect line array theory is needed to make a functional one for use at home.
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There are two schools of thought on the matter of the audibility of Comb filtering, Try to research the subject and you can see how polarized these camps can be (not unlike SS vs Tube 😉 )
But in a relatively reverberant room and in the far field, comb filtering would be a minor issue.
Btw, comb filtering does not equate to screechy highs, but rather screechy/non existent highs depending on your listening height (if it's a vertical line array)
Comb Filtering, Acoustical Interference, & Power Response in Loudspeakers | Audioholics
For the topic starter, yes these founteks will work in a line array, don't worry to much. Some example's of "working" 3 inch driver line array's:
Strassacker: Speaker Building, Components
http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/download/Humble%20Homemade%20Hifi_Pipeline_copy.pdf
For the topic starter, yes these founteks will work in a line array, don't worry to much. Some example's of "working" 3 inch driver line array's:
Strassacker: Speaker Building, Components
http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/download/Humble%20Homemade%20Hifi_Pipeline_copy.pdf
Also check out:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/193015-stupid-cheap-line-array.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/203356-cloning-ids-25s.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/243861-floor-ceiling-array-vs-cbt.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/228041-line-array-tweeter-line-length.html
Also a search for member Speaker Dave with the subject line array would help. He used to work for McIntoch researching the behaviour of line arrays. His paper is on here somewhere in the above threads.
My advice:
If you build a short array, think seriously about tapering the line.
If you build a tall array you could get away without tapering. Tall means at least 70% of the room height in this case.
To hajj, did you build or hear a line array to form that opinion? What kind of array was that? Tall or short? Please provide a bit more info.
You do notice both those arrays are rather tall? 😉
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/193015-stupid-cheap-line-array.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/203356-cloning-ids-25s.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/243861-floor-ceiling-array-vs-cbt.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/228041-line-array-tweeter-line-length.html
Also a search for member Speaker Dave with the subject line array would help. He used to work for McIntoch researching the behaviour of line arrays. His paper is on here somewhere in the above threads.
My advice:
If you build a short array, think seriously about tapering the line.
If you build a tall array you could get away without tapering. Tall means at least 70% of the room height in this case.
To hajj, did you build or hear a line array to form that opinion? What kind of array was that? Tall or short? Please provide a bit more info.
You do notice both those arrays are rather tall? 😉
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Hello Wesayso,
My line array experience is pretty limited, the only one I heard was when I mounted 16 x 4 inch FR drivers on a simple mdf board to see how they might sound (one column).
They did sound big, but I never was able to pursue the project, went the OB route instead.
That's why I tried not to formulate any opinion but rather give facts and options. 😉
Regards
Nick
Thanks Wesayo, very good advice about length and taper.
Speaker Dave's pdf's on his work for McIntosh line array's can be found here post #26: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/243861-floor-ceiling-array-vs-cbt-3.html
Speaker Dave's pdf's on his work for McIntosh line array's can be found here post #26: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/243861-floor-ceiling-array-vs-cbt-3.html
Well, I've built floor to ceiling line arrays using the vifa tc9.
so I can guarantee that the above statement is false.
I've never heard an array with full-range drivers that I thought was tonally correct. Some better than others; however, EQ does nothing to help the off-axis behavior.
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