just pulled a stereo from a console and this will be my first recap project. I am going to need a lot of help and will be gratefull for your efforts.
There was no markings on the console. The gentleman I got it from said the console was hand made by a German guy who gave it to his dad 5 years ago. The buttons and the dial appear identical to a 1963 Grundig I had but there are no markings that indicate brand name. I really liked the Grundig but a cap failed and destroyed the who unit. This is why I am doing this recap.
There is a sticker on the back that says 23 853 no 10287. I assume this means manufactured on August 23, 1953 but this unit has the appearance of an early 60's and it is stereo.
The tube brand is primarily Valvo. The large cap is Eiko 2 x 50 uf. it does say Frakko and "Gameins - Pol and Gehause".
It does say " Made in Western Germany" on the face plate
here is a pic of the tube layout
the labelling is not great so here is a list:
1) far left - 2 x ELL 80
2) 2nd pair from left - 2 x ECC 83
3) middle rear - EBF 89
4) middle front - ECH 81
5) right rear - EZ 81
6) right front - ECC 85
7) tube that illuuminates face plate - EL84
the radio tuner has "Kopt" labelled on it. The transformer has a hand written sticker that says 8695.
I figure a good starting point is to try to figure out what model this is and then come up with a list of capacitors that need changings. The owner said that he had it operating a week ago but I have not turned it on since picking it up.
While there is no name, there is a musical scale on the face plate. I have found a picture of a Gaetz stereo that has a similar image. If anyone has an idea of what model this amp might be, i would be very grateful.
There was no markings on the console. The gentleman I got it from said the console was hand made by a German guy who gave it to his dad 5 years ago. The buttons and the dial appear identical to a 1963 Grundig I had but there are no markings that indicate brand name. I really liked the Grundig but a cap failed and destroyed the who unit. This is why I am doing this recap.
There is a sticker on the back that says 23 853 no 10287. I assume this means manufactured on August 23, 1953 but this unit has the appearance of an early 60's and it is stereo.
The tube brand is primarily Valvo. The large cap is Eiko 2 x 50 uf. it does say Frakko and "Gameins - Pol and Gehause".
It does say " Made in Western Germany" on the face plate
here is a pic of the tube layout
the labelling is not great so here is a list:
1) far left - 2 x ELL 80
2) 2nd pair from left - 2 x ECC 83
3) middle rear - EBF 89
4) middle front - ECH 81
5) right rear - EZ 81
6) right front - ECC 85
7) tube that illuuminates face plate - EL84
the radio tuner has "Kopt" labelled on it. The transformer has a hand written sticker that says 8695.
I figure a good starting point is to try to figure out what model this is and then come up with a list of capacitors that need changings. The owner said that he had it operating a week ago but I have not turned it on since picking it up.
While there is no name, there is a musical scale on the face plate. I have found a picture of a Gaetz stereo that has a similar image. If anyone has an idea of what model this amp might be, i would be very grateful.
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It looks like a Korting Super-Excello 23 843.
Super-Excello 23 843 Radio Körting-Radio; Leipzig, später Gr
Or a Neckermann Berlin-Stereo 821/60.
Berlin-Stereo 821/60 Radio Neckermann-Versand KG; Frankfurt
Could have been made by the same manufacturer, since Neckermann was a store brand.
Super-Excello 23 843 Radio Körting-Radio; Leipzig, später Gr
Or a Neckermann Berlin-Stereo 821/60.
Berlin-Stereo 821/60 Radio Neckermann-Versand KG; Frankfurt
Could have been made by the same manufacturer, since Neckermann was a store brand.
The ELL80 can help you date the console. It first appeared in 1959.
ELL80 @ The National Valve Museum
Note that the ELL80 is fussy to find an not cheap if you need to replace them. I heard that European sets were taxed on the number of tubes, so they put two pentodes in one bottle to frustrate the tax man. I doubt they put out more than 3 or 4 watts.
The Eiko can cap is likely a fire starter, and should be immediately replaced. I am surprised to see it so far from the transformers. I would guess that there are more electrolytics hiding around the EZ81. They too will need immediate replacement. Certainly stay away from any caps involved in the radio section (probably most everything under that flying trapeze arragement), lest you destroy its tuning ability.
Wish I could be more help.
ELL80 @ The National Valve Museum
Note that the ELL80 is fussy to find an not cheap if you need to replace them. I heard that European sets were taxed on the number of tubes, so they put two pentodes in one bottle to frustrate the tax man. I doubt they put out more than 3 or 4 watts.
The Eiko can cap is likely a fire starter, and should be immediately replaced. I am surprised to see it so far from the transformers. I would guess that there are more electrolytics hiding around the EZ81. They too will need immediate replacement. Certainly stay away from any caps involved in the radio section (probably most everything under that flying trapeze arragement), lest you destroy its tuning ability.
Wish I could be more help.
the post came back 
thaks the for help so far, I am going to research those links. This thing will not be turned on until I replace everything that needs to be replaced. Nice amp but I value my life and house more.
I used to be skeptical about replacing caps until my beloved grundig went pooof after 3 months of normal everyday use. i took it to a tech and it was way beyond eceonomic repair. One bad cap can cause a lot of damage.
thaks the for help so far, I am going to research those links. This thing will not be turned on until I replace everything that needs to be replaced. Nice amp but I value my life and house more.
I used to be skeptical about replacing caps until my beloved grundig went pooof after 3 months of normal everyday use. i took it to a tech and it was way beyond eceonomic repair. One bad cap can cause a lot of damage.
not sure why my posts keep going away. They are probably boring and poorly written but that has never stopped anyone from posting on the internet.
Anyways, if this post appears, it looks like this is a Berlin-Stereo 821/60. Thank you so much for the link. Does anyone have a schematic and suggested caps to be replaced?
Anyways, if this post appears, it looks like this is a Berlin-Stereo 821/60. Thank you so much for the link. Does anyone have a schematic and suggested caps to be replaced?
Your unit seems to have Philips mustard capacitors in it. Don't bother replacing those, they are always good. Only the main filter cap might need replacement. And perhaps some coupling capacitors near the output stage.
You can check main filter caps by measuring leakage at full rated voltage. And the capacitance. Another useful thing measurement is ripple in circuit.
Electrolytes in old stereo's hardly ever go if the unit was used regularly.
V4lve.
You can check main filter caps by measuring leakage at full rated voltage. And the capacitance. Another useful thing measurement is ripple in circuit.
Electrolytes in old stereo's hardly ever go if the unit was used regularly.
V4lve.
Be careful of the printed circuit boards in this set. They're made from phenolic and the traces are easily lifted when soldering to them. You can only hope the ELL80's are good, as they're expensive and hard to find. I repair German radios as a side business, but I don't like working on sets like this, because those boards are such a PITA. Any wax paper caps (I see a few in there) should be replaced. Be sure the coupling caps to the grids of the ELL80's are not leaky. It wouldn't hurt to replace these, just to make sure. Agree about the electrolytics. If there's hum in the output, then they might need replacement.
my plan is to replace the large can and all the caps near the ELL80 except for the mustard colored ones. There are also some caps near the treble and bass controls. Should these also be replaced?
I also see a larger one near the transformer and rectifier tube. While i have the unit on the bench, is that a candidate as well?
I also see a larger one near the transformer and rectifier tube. While i have the unit on the bench, is that a candidate as well?
Yes, your receiver was made by Körting in (West) Germany. The ELL80's are good for about nine watts of audio power in self-biased pp arrangement.
As yet suggested, I wouldn't change all caps. The suspicious ones are the mains filter electrolytic, the coupling caps to the ELLs' grids and the electrolytics in the cathode bias arrangements.
I own a very similar console, made by Nordmende, from 1965. I replaced both ELL80's by two 6AQ5's each and the dial lights by two amber leds to compensate for the 6AQ5s' greater heater current.
Best regards!
As yet suggested, I wouldn't change all caps. The suspicious ones are the mains filter electrolytic, the coupling caps to the ELLs' grids and the electrolytics in the cathode bias arrangements.
I own a very similar console, made by Nordmende, from 1965. I replaced both ELL80's by two 6AQ5's each and the dial lights by two amber leds to compensate for the 6AQ5s' greater heater current.
Best regards!
Even the Germans did similar. I had a console thru here that had daughter boards with 2 EL95 to replace each ELL80.
dave
Correct. But these adapters are rare to find. And I was just going to post that 2-EL95/6DL5 would be the closest in characteristic to the ELL80. The 6AQ5 is basically a 6V6 in a miniature envelope.
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Agreed. But EL95 are also hard to find in these days, whilst lots of 6AQ5's, 6005's, EL90's etc. still are in the market in large quantities.
I didn't believe it at first glance, but EL 95 and 6AQ5 share the same pinout, and, according to the sheets, there are pp options within comparable peripheral components and results. Just have a look at the datasheets.
Best regards!
I rebuilt one of those German console amps with ELL80 outputs and 12AX7 drivers a couple years ago, it was a Grundig. It started out as Picture #1, and ended up as an I-pod dock for my wife (pics 2 and 3). She loves it; it's a very nice sounding amp!
Good luck with yours!
Good luck with yours!
Attachments
Yes, I'm aware of using the 6AQ5 as a sub. A number of techs here do it as well. There are big differences in e.g., plate resistance, but I don't know the consequences of that in an actual circuit. I've never done power and distortion measurements with these tubes, so I can't say how well the 6AQ5 performs as a sub. The other issue is the heat. So many of these tubes plug into bakelite sockets mounted on old fashioned pcb's. The 6AQ5 gets a lot hotter, and that's not good for the socket or circuit board. There's also the matter of heater current, which puts a greater load on the power transformer. These already tend to run hot, so you were smart to sub LED's for the bulbs to help compensate. Around here, EL95's are still readily available, if a bit more expensive than the 6AQ5.
Nice unit BTW!
In post #1 what is listed as (7) EL84 for tube that illuminates the faceplate must be a typo as that's actually a really nice power tube.
Maybe it could be adapted as need be as it's still in production with plentiful choices, easier to drive than the 6AQ5/6V6 types and could give a bit more power with longer life in that unit. One would have to make adapter boards again, and it is 9 pin so a bit bigger & taller.
In post #1 what is listed as (7) EL84 for tube that illuminates the faceplate must be a typo as that's actually a really nice power tube.
Maybe it could be adapted as need be as it's still in production with plentiful choices, easier to drive than the 6AQ5/6V6 types and could give a bit more power with longer life in that unit. One would have to make adapter boards again, and it is 9 pin so a bit bigger & taller.
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