What is the "Tube Sound"?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Jump to Latest
#45
I am actually thinking about using opamps for my whole system. Valves i love, but their gross inefficiency sits heavy on my mind. Just think a system which only consumes a few watts at idle - now wouldn't that be a novelty.

However the first day I moved away from an all opamp system about 7 years ago I thought it was a difference of night and day.

I might have to compromise with a E55L spud amp - sort of a half way house.

Shoog
 
#48
When I rebuilt my first Yaqin MS22-B I avoided fitting a 3rd valve by using a MOSFET, I needed a high impedance following the RIAA circuit so I could not use the original Transistor Emitter Follower. Heck! surely just a follower will not affect the sound in any way and the MOSFET sounded pretty good. It just so happens that the MS22-B circuit is a copy of my original home made Valve RIAA, so I had that to compare with yet one could hear quite a difference! So I made the decision to do the metal work and add a third valve - result was bliss. So why? how? after all they are just followers with less than unity gain. I have come to the conclusion that the reason for the difference is due to the difference in technology. To my ears, the sound obtained by controlling electrons in a vacuum seems to be better than controlling them through a solid material. The downsides to using thermionics are many as most know, wasteful of energy, micro-phonics and other noises but with careful design should not intrude. Worst is the heat! In the summer time the valve amp spends a little more time as an ornament until the temperature drops down to a comfortable level. But despite all of this, the final listening results seem to make it all worthwhile and I just cannot see SS power amps becoming prominent here again. So much more detail and sound stage as these little particles dash unimpeded through the vacuum.
 
#49
All electrical and technical differences of SS vs. tubes aside, which I'm positive there are; never underestimate the power of the looks and feel of the equipment to have a major influence of the perceived sound impression. When I take my tube bass amp out, people already think it's awesome without it even being turned on. My SS amp, no one cares.
 
#50
To my ears, the sound obtained by controlling electrons in a vacuum seems to be better than controlling them through a solid material.
Click to expand...
Booooyah!! I concur Hi-Q!

Valves = saturated, rich, dense: if sound was a smell, valves are more pungent, a sense of 'liquidity' , better mids and highs, sense of spaciousness,

sometimes a positive attribute/sometimes a negative one depends on the sound, the material

strengths are weaknesses

Valves are also kind of flaccid, under damped, all go and no stop, poor dynamic control

S.S = sounds relatively dry, hard, cold, but also very well damped = better bass, better dynamics, stop as well as go.
 
Last edited:
#54
hpeter said:
why do you say that?

>Pano- pun hammered!🙂
Click to expand...

Well,

If you walked into a room with music playing but could not see the amp, how many people would think either:

A That sounds a bit rubbish for a modern system, I wonder what it is. Its a bit muffled<<then find out its an old leak stereo 20.

B That sounds good I wonder if its a technics or a pioneer. Then find out its a tube amp.

C. Not take any notice because its background music.

All three of the above have happened to me.

A was in a record store and the amp was under the counter.

B Was in a Pub.

C Was in a hotel lounge.

I could not tell it was a tube amp. Only when I did know did I link the sound and think, however in all three cases I was surprised I hadn't thought immediately it was a tube amp.

Probably because I wasn't expecting to find a tube amp in each of these situations.

A friend had a tube amp and I listened to it and thought its not as clear as some I have listened to. Then he showed me the SS pioneer behind the unit that was connected to the speakers. I did not immediately say oh yeah that's not a tube amp.

So what was the conclusion either the tube amp was not good or I was expecting SS amplification.

So yes its easy to fool people, However remember in each case it was background music.

So in blind testing I think you will like or dislike a type of system but maybe not be able to tell if its SS or tube.
(Unless there is a dead giveaway like hum)

Regards
M. Gregg
 
Last edited:
#55
You do realise that the differences you describe are mainly circuit issues (such as amount of feedback) and have almost nothing to do with the active devices being used?
Click to expand...

perhaps, but it doesn't appear possible (to me) to have it all - if you voice/optimise an amp for 'liquidity' or being 'melodious' the same amp can't then also be relatively as excellent in terms of 'rigidity' being very well damped and dynamically controlled.

Like a car that handles like a Ferrari but also has the comfort of a Bentley.

You can have a Ferrari, a BMW or a Rolls Royce, but you can't have all 3 at once
 
Last edited:
#57
I have a tri-amp system crossed at roughly 400 & 3500. I use it to listen to pre-recorded music, mainly mp3's in my studio. When I first put it together, all the amps were ss. I did experience a bit of listener fatigue, ear fatigue, or whatever you call it. I took out the amp for the midrange. It was an SAE A201, a respectable 100 wpc power amp. I'm also a musician, so I swapped in a Peavey Classic 50/50 stereo tube power amp. Nothing special, just a full range 50 wpc power amp that uses EL84's, not even sure what the driver tubes are. I didn't do any A/B double blind tests, or any comparisons with ss on right channel or tube on the left channel. I just used my calibration mic and software to set the level. Presto! No more ear fatigue!

For those interested, my crossover is a TDM 24CX, active 24dB/octave Linkwitz-Riley design. My mid driver is a B&C DE750TN 2" compression driver mounted on a Eliptrac 400 which is a custom designed tractrix horn.
 
Last edited:
#60
I don't think many amp owners care. It's what they think they hear that matters, to them. That's fine until some of them start confusing it on public forums.
Click to expand...

If you mean hear rather than "hear," often, yes indeed.
Click to expand...

I'm not quite sure what this means exactly, but I'd just comment:

there's audio electrical acoustic engineering from a text book and a workshop

and there's music, played by musicians

what makes a fine musician, a fine musician? what does say.. Lang Lang hear?

Does everyone 'listen/hear' as deeply as Lang Lang does? - insert any fine musician

If no, how can anyone be sure of what a system, in any given room, can and can't convey and be the judge of what someone, anyone can and can't hear

Being handy with a soldering iron doesn't make someone a musician
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom