Hi
A friend of mine has a brewery and last night I hosted a maggot racing event for him (really and a great success it was too!)
However the audio was dreadful! Imagine a large metal room, with some wooden tables and chairs, a bar and barrels a half wooden floor and half tiles.
I want to suggest an idea to him about what type of speakers to put in and where, not so much for music, but for announcements, who's won what etc, commentary (those maggots don't sell the tickets!) put clear enough so that people around the room can hear, without having it annoyingly loud.
The building is about 30m square (ish) and 10m high.
Any advice as to where I should start looking? What kind of speakers, amps, does the type of microphone matter?
I'm not a total novice, but I'm closer to that end of the spectrum than the other.
Thanks
Liam
A friend of mine has a brewery and last night I hosted a maggot racing event for him (really and a great success it was too!)
However the audio was dreadful! Imagine a large metal room, with some wooden tables and chairs, a bar and barrels a half wooden floor and half tiles.
I want to suggest an idea to him about what type of speakers to put in and where, not so much for music, but for announcements, who's won what etc, commentary (those maggots don't sell the tickets!) put clear enough so that people around the room can hear, without having it annoyingly loud.
The building is about 30m square (ish) and 10m high.
Any advice as to where I should start looking? What kind of speakers, amps, does the type of microphone matter?
I'm not a total novice, but I'm closer to that end of the spectrum than the other.
Thanks
Liam
Think about a large number of smaller speakers spread around the room. The closer you can get a speaker to each person the better.
Use a directional mic very near the commentator.
I don't know how to mic the maggots.
Use a directional mic very near the commentator.
I don't know how to mic the maggots.
Indeed.. Size contraints, none really.. budget, he's willing to improve the system but times they're tough in the brewing world too 🙂
The problem is the room.
(Drapes and soft furnishings would help!)
Use a Sure SM58 (directional with good reflection rejection) and try and get the speakers at head height, so there is not too much power and intelligible sound.
Hope that helps.
(Drapes and soft furnishings would help!)
Use a Sure SM58 (directional with good reflection rejection) and try and get the speakers at head height, so there is not too much power and intelligible sound.
Hope that helps.
Having mulled this over a little, I think perhaps the best bet would be to focus mainly on the room treatment.
A simple voice/background music setup could be as simple as 4x Mission 760i speakers, and a suitable amplifier or two (make sure its good for 50w cleanly into 8ohm). Chuck in a small mixing desk with a mic and phono input and you're good to go.
The reason I suggest those speakers is that they're fairly cheap (2nd hand, see eBay, etc), sound good, and go fairly loud for their size. You'd be pushing it if you wanted music at a medium to loud level throughout the room, but like I say - for vocal announcements and background music, I think they'd fit the bill well.
Apply soft furnishings (curtains, etc) liberally around the room to try to kill off reflections, and you're good to go.
Chris
A simple voice/background music setup could be as simple as 4x Mission 760i speakers, and a suitable amplifier or two (make sure its good for 50w cleanly into 8ohm). Chuck in a small mixing desk with a mic and phono input and you're good to go.
The reason I suggest those speakers is that they're fairly cheap (2nd hand, see eBay, etc), sound good, and go fairly loud for their size. You'd be pushing it if you wanted music at a medium to loud level throughout the room, but like I say - for vocal announcements and background music, I think they'd fit the bill well.
Apply soft furnishings (curtains, etc) liberally around the room to try to kill off reflections, and you're good to go.
Chris
Maggot Racing is where a number of live maggots are placed on a tabletop and they are numbered or have a blob of colour on their backs. A bet is placed on which one is thought to go the furthest quickest and win the race. A bit like uncontrolled sub miniature horse racing with no jockeys and luck if the maggot goes in the correct direction! 
For intelligible voice you must restrict the frequency range.
Cut both the bass and the treble equally.
Cut both the bass and the treble equally.
Intelligible voice? 😱
Are you out of your mind?
People who get
enough to find a maggot race fun, certainly must listen to:Cannibal Corpse---A Skull Full Of Maggot (Live Cannibalism) - YouTube
Just sayin' 😛
Oh dear. I am a sound engineer of some standing and have had the misfortune to engineer one of these bands that have, in my opinion, no musical attributes.
I suppose someone has to do it but luckily, not me.
Thanks for the input anyway.
I suppose someone has to do it but luckily, not me.
Thanks for the input anyway.
An SM58 is probably not the best choice of mic for the commentator as the polar pick up is quite wide. Something like a Rode M2 which has a super-cardiod pattern would be better suited to the job.
The SM58 is the industry standard. An SM57 would be slightly more directional but the '58 has excellent reverse phase rejection. The Rode M2 is a good budget microphone but ensure you have phantom power as it is electret condenser and needs power.
me thinks harleyjon is right the Sm 58 or 57 as an announcer mic is a better choice.
they can stand more abuse all around.
i get scared at hand handling any mic that has phantom power applied because if the ground goes south or the connector lock isn't up to snuff the "noise" produced can be disastrous i.e. driver damage and or killing the input stage of your mixer.
but that's just me.
they can stand more abuse all around.
i get scared at hand handling any mic that has phantom power applied because if the ground goes south or the connector lock isn't up to snuff the "noise" produced can be disastrous i.e. driver damage and or killing the input stage of your mixer.
but that's just me.
as to the original objective.
perhaps a powered speaker (or two) like a Mackie on tripod stands would be sufficient for announcements.
most of the Mackies have provisions for hooking up a mic directly to them no mixer needed.
this also might be within the non existant budget
perhaps a powered speaker (or two) like a Mackie on tripod stands would be sufficient for announcements.
most of the Mackies have provisions for hooking up a mic directly to them no mixer needed.
this also might be within the non existant budget
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Whilst I agree the 58 is the industry standard (live music, just to be clear) the clarity of the Rode makes it a very good choice for speech intelligability, don't mistake its relative price point for low quality. However, as I suggested "or similar", for example Sennheiser also do some very good 800 series mics that are not phantom power, but also have very good feedback rejection and clarity. Build quality on all the mics mentioned (except the 57) will withstand the abuse that they are likely to face in a commentary situation.
ianpengelly
Rode's are excellent mic's they make great overheads for cymbal mic'ing and i've also used (sorry don't exactly recall the model # at the moment reminded me of a Neumann) vocal mic for studio tracks. i love 'em.
i'm not a fan of giving people with no mic technique a hyper or tight cardioid pattern because there notorious at turning their heads as they talk (so the second they go of axis bye bye level) or start waving it around at someone else or cupping there hands over it,all of which are the short list of a soundman's thing's not to do with mic's
but that's just me.
and considering the budget a trip to the local pawn shop should easily fetch a 58 for a song.
Rode's are excellent mic's they make great overheads for cymbal mic'ing and i've also used (sorry don't exactly recall the model # at the moment reminded me of a Neumann) vocal mic for studio tracks. i love 'em.
i'm not a fan of giving people with no mic technique a hyper or tight cardioid pattern because there notorious at turning their heads as they talk (so the second they go of axis bye bye level) or start waving it around at someone else or cupping there hands over it,all of which are the short list of a soundman's thing's not to do with mic's
but that's just me.
and considering the budget a trip to the local pawn shop should easily fetch a 58 for a song.
From a (slightly) similar project (multilingual son et lumière in a cave de mandement where they condition wine before bottling it) if you're leaving the stuff in place, fewest possible plugs and sockets, solder connections in place, any cardboard cones sealed in plastic bags (tensioned with a heat shrink gun to prevent rattling), connections encased in blobs of silicone bathroom sealant, microphones in condoms including connectors…
There's something in the atmosphere, worse than mere damp (although humidity's pretty rough on sound gear). I had endless problems with connectors and rotting cones for thr first couple of years. And the lights; much worse than mere outdoor rigs.
As a comment; from work in reverberant spaces, a point source is generally more intelligible than a distributed system (the job I'm mentioning was different, with multiple point sources associated with lights to draw attention to a particular region, but never any voice in more than one speaker). While acoustic damping would be very useful, the region has its principal function, and any hangings or absorbent panels would compromise this.
As an installation system I'd rig an overhead cluster aimed down at the audience (humans make very good acoustic absorbers); for portable a relatively tall stand with directional speakers aimed at human concentrations, so exciting as few reflections and resonances as practically possible.
There's something in the atmosphere, worse than mere damp (although humidity's pretty rough on sound gear). I had endless problems with connectors and rotting cones for thr first couple of years. And the lights; much worse than mere outdoor rigs.
As a comment; from work in reverberant spaces, a point source is generally more intelligible than a distributed system (the job I'm mentioning was different, with multiple point sources associated with lights to draw attention to a particular region, but never any voice in more than one speaker). While acoustic damping would be very useful, the region has its principal function, and any hangings or absorbent panels would compromise this.
As an installation system I'd rig an overhead cluster aimed down at the audience (humans make very good acoustic absorbers); for portable a relatively tall stand with directional speakers aimed at human concentrations, so exciting as few reflections and resonances as practically possible.
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