Oh sure, but if I were to make it a focused array, I wouldn't bother with any of this.
But interesting idea.
Jon, maybe you could position your array at the wall and report back?
Maybe it will create a diffused sound field without the comb filtering.
Hi Melo Theory,
Good to see some real adventure in designing speakers. But I'm no expert to give advices
Your idea is new to me. Also, I have no experience in DSP-base ambiosonic (a term seems to have more than one definitions... oh well).
In my own limited experiences, HF (>3kHz or so) is good to be multiple reflected, or eventually presented by a large diffused area (think indirect lighting).
OTOH, for mid to midbass, I prefer higher direct/indirect ratio - narrower directivity. (I'm using dipole now)
Please don't ask me how to combine them well. I'm still in the trial and error stage.
Good to see some real adventure in designing speakers. But I'm no expert to give advices
Your idea is new to me. Also, I have no experience in DSP-base ambiosonic (a term seems to have more than one definitions... oh well). In my own limited experiences, HF (>3kHz or so) is good to be multiple reflected, or eventually presented by a large diffused area (think indirect lighting).
OTOH, for mid to midbass, I prefer higher direct/indirect ratio - narrower directivity. (I'm using dipole now)
Please don't ask me how to combine them well. I'm still in the trial and error stage.
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Hi Melo Theory,
Good to see some real adventure in designing speakers. But I'm no expert to give advices
In my own limited experiences, HF (>3kHz or so) is good to be multiple reflected, or eventually presented by a large diffused area (think indirect lighting).
OTOH, for mid to midbass, I prefer higher direct/indirect ratio - narrower directivity.
Please don't ask me how to combine them well. I'm still in the trial and error stage.
Oh, great!
So a 45 degree angle will create a broad diffuse field for the frequencies you mentioned here.
I think the sum of reflected to direct with a 45 degree angle will achieve that. Yes?
The full range drivers I'm using will start to beam around 3kHz.....
I was curious if this configuration will avoid CTC comb filtering.
I'm thinking that being 45 degrees of axis....you will not hear the combing of the high frequencies until reflected off the sidewalls, and by that time, the vector of the wave launch will have more time to sum. Also The reflected amplitude will be down.
Ambiophonic dsp is just crosstalk cancelation
Recursive
Ambiophonic
Crosstalk
Elimination
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I don't hear any specific comb filtering from my straight arrays in the wall. However if I approach them on a distance of half feet and move vertically I can hear changes in frequency response, but on 3 feet I don't hear this. Neither on the listening position, 10 feet and more.
"Comb filtering" is the huge problem with arrays on stadiums, in small arrays with 4" midrangers and 1"-2" tweeters, especially when tweeters are flat as mine, it is not an issue at all.
People who talk about "comb filtering issues" never heard real line arrays.
I think it is a good choice. You probably can supply each of them by up to 50W on 40 Hz by EQ and get flat response from 40 Hz to approximately 10 KHz. With klovatt per side amps and height from floor to ceiling I think you can EQ down to 20 Hz and still get quite loud sound.
Yes, but I suupose that if its focused on you head, you will have less sweet spot comparing to flooder array focused on reflecting sidewalls... Just a guess.
Yes, that's what he said, & why he doesn't want to make a focused array at this time, taking the opposite approach.
On the subject of comb effects, owing to the multitude of deliberate reflections created by an omni directional speaker, AFAIK, that's largely what they create, albeit an extremely dense one across a very broad BW -so dense that it (hopefully) balances itself out. I'm less than convinced by most omnidirectional speakers, but I suspect this hybrid design could be more effective than some of the smaller types. Reminds me a bit of the old JBL Aquarius slot-loaded omni types. They allegedly worked well, when set up properly).
On the subject of comb effects, owing to the multitude of deliberate reflections created by an omni directional speaker, AFAIK, that's largely what they create, albeit an extremely dense one across a very broad BW -so dense that it (hopefully) balances itself out. I'm less than convinced by most omnidirectional speakers, but I suspect this hybrid design could be more effective than some of the smaller types. Reminds me a bit of the old JBL Aquarius slot-loaded omni types. They allegedly worked well, when set up properly).
um, no.
even 25 x 3.5", if you eq them flat down 40hz, to my ears they will sound garbled and strained at 10' away at 100db.
my 9 x 4" has the cone area of a 12".
Run wide open using an equalizer for some bass boost (+6@125, +9db@60hz and 30hz), I was not impressed. Even when run flat with a subwoofer alongside of it, results were ok. I got less garble and strain with a 6.5" run wide open crossed @5khz to a piezo run alongside of a subwoofer.
I got full success only when I ran it with a 100hz 24db crossover (with no equalizer).
I guess I listen a bit louder, love my Chante Savage and Sade bass (somebody already broke my heart), and use for movies straight off the back left/right rca stereo plugs.
Norman
Hi guys
I don't want to be a spoiler here, but remember that walls do not perfectly reradiate what you throw at them (soundwise). They absorb and reflect selectively, and I suspect this will not be uniform across the entire wall, either. Note however that I too want to play with omnis some time in the future, but this needs to be taken into account when speaking about flooder arrays.
OTOH, here is another alternative idea, albeit not a easy one to do. Have you given thought to a multi-sided tower, yet? Maybe an irregular-sided one, like a pentagular or heptangular tower. Why irregular sides? To prevent parallel sides and so combat standing waves, of course. With a pentagular cabinet, with say four drivers per face, with 5 sided that makes tallies to 20 drivers per unit, 40 drivers per pair. You said there was 50 drivers available (25 per cabinet X 2 units for the original concept), so then with this concept, there are still 10 drivers unused. So make the top of the cabinet a pentagular pyramid, and mount a driver on each face. 5 drivers more per cabinet, and you have used up your tally of 50 units (I'll post a drawing if my description isn't clear). Then you have the greatest amount of energy focussed around the speaker, but some reflected upwards to add ambiance. Just a thought.
Deon
PS. The Spherovox is indeed an interesting concept. One could try and DIY it with two half-round planter pots (per side). Maybe two fullrangers in the middle with a Deuvel-like reflector.
I don't want to be a spoiler here, but remember that walls do not perfectly reradiate what you throw at them (soundwise). They absorb and reflect selectively, and I suspect this will not be uniform across the entire wall, either. Note however that I too want to play with omnis some time in the future, but this needs to be taken into account when speaking about flooder arrays.
OTOH, here is another alternative idea, albeit not a easy one to do. Have you given thought to a multi-sided tower, yet? Maybe an irregular-sided one, like a pentagular or heptangular tower. Why irregular sides? To prevent parallel sides and so combat standing waves, of course.
With a pentagular cabinet, with say four drivers per face, with 5 sided that makes tallies to 20 drivers per unit, 40 drivers per pair. You said there was 50 drivers available (25 per cabinet X 2 units for the original concept), so then with this concept, there are still 10 drivers unused. So make the top of the cabinet a pentagular pyramid, and mount a driver on each face. 5 drivers more per cabinet, and you have used up your tally of 50 units (I'll post a drawing if my description isn't clear). Then you have the greatest amount of energy focussed around the speaker, but some reflected upwards to add ambiance. Just a thought. Deon
PS. The Spherovox is indeed an interesting concept. One could try and DIY it with two half-round planter pots (per side). Maybe two fullrangers in the middle with a Deuvel-like reflector.
Jon, I definitely think you are the exception
But I hear you, I'm only going to use the arrays down to Fb not only for the sake of efficiency or distortion. I m going to roll in stereo subs around 150Hz for reasons pertaining to the RACE dsp.
I have 8 of these
Tang Band W6-1139SI 6-1/2" Subwoofer 264-832
Alright, so guys......should I do the last configuration?
The on wall 45 degree flooder?
I haven't built anything in 3 weeks and I feel a strong pull towards home depot to get some wood!
But I hear you, I'm only going to use the arrays down to Fb not only for the sake of efficiency or distortion. I m going to roll in stereo subs around 150Hz for reasons pertaining to the RACE dsp.
I have 8 of these
Tang Band W6-1139SI 6-1/2" Subwoofer 264-832
Alright, so guys......should I do the last configuration?
The on wall 45 degree flooder?
I haven't built anything in 3 weeks and I feel a strong pull towards home depot to get some wood!
No probs, but just remember that I only have MS Paint to work with. Let me try to explain better. A normal speaker is a 4-sided tower. I am proposing a 5-sided tower. Then instead of the top being flat, angle each of the sides up at say 45-degrees. This will form a pyramid shape at the top (but 5-sided, not 4-sided like the pyramids at Giza in Egypt). 4 drivers on each of the normal sided, one each on each of the pyramid's faces. I hope that is clearer. I am on my phone at the moment, but will post a drawing in within an hour's time.
Deon
I am on my phone at the moment, but will post a drawing in within an hour's time. Deon
True, but the reflected sound will still have a lot of unlinearities. And if you EQ to correct that, you will unbalance the direct sound which will be reaching you first. I'm not saying it won't work, but in the words of Mr. Spock, it just seems illogical. OTOH, most of speaker design is somewhat illogical.
Deon
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