Received the booster/converter today. Made a significant difference, adjusting the gain made it far louder much more intense. Yet the overall sound remains.. some sounds good yet it just sounds empty, even raspy at times. Opposite of deep.
I'm considering doing that front/back 12"s.
I would love to use Amazon prime. These 2 come up as top picks.
Amazon.com: Pioneer TS-W3002D4 12 In. Champion Series PRO Subwoofer with 3500 Watts: Car Electronics
Amazon.com: Rockford Fosgate P3D4-12 Punch P3 DVC 4-Ohm 12-Inch 600-Watt RMS 1200-Watt Peak Subwoofer: Car Electronics
Think either of those make a good pair in my box? (would I need to upgrade to the EP4000 or can the EP2000 handle it?)
Thanks again for all your help. I suck at all of this..
Both those speakers look like overpriced crap.
At the moment it sounds like you need to optimise your current system - better box, higher tune, and a low pass crossover.
I'd rather keep the box (reinforce) and cut the shelf for a higher tune (if needed), than rebuild right now..
This driver here:
Eminence Kilomax Pro-18A 18" Cast Frame Driver 290-434
people seem to say works well in a 5-6 cube box. (reviews)
might be a good fit for me? Or more of the same.
Seriously, sort out the crossover, box, and tune before you get into swapping the driver. Simply swapping out drivers when you don't have a properly setup baseline is very bad practice.....
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I don't want to rebuild from scratch... thus if it's the box/tune, I'd start by looking for a different driver instead. My set up isn't that bad... It's a 34hz 5.5 cube box. I'm just trying to troubleshoot to a solution.
(The bracing isn't that terrible, + 3/4 mdf. The tune is at 34hz, nothing too out of the ordinary, increasing won't significantly change much. The crossover isn't as crucial to me right now. It shouldn't really affect the subwoofer's lack of output itself.)
It's simply not deep... at all. Hence me claiming something is "off".
Messing more with the signal booster/converter, it actually hits pretty deep now. I think it may have been the culprit... (yes I still need a crossover)
Much much more output where it starts to clip now, as to where it would clip before. I'm just not sure as to where to set the gain on the booster vs gain on the amp?
Some songs are still a bit empty... but I'm getting there.
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While you're on a roll with returning stuff, you might want to swap to a Behringer NU3000DSP amp, which will let you EQ and crossover any way you want....
Amazon.com: Behringer NU3000DSP iNuke Ultra-Lightweight, High-Density 3000-Watt Power Amplifier with DSP Control and USB Interface: Musical Instruments
Behringer iNUKE Class-D Amps: NU1000/NU1000DSP, NU3000/NU3000DSP, NU6000/NU6000DSP, NU4-6000 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com
Amazon.com: Behringer NU3000DSP iNuke Ultra-Lightweight, High-Density 3000-Watt Power Amplifier with DSP Control and USB Interface: Musical Instruments
Behringer iNUKE Class-D Amps: NU1000/NU1000DSP, NU3000/NU3000DSP, NU6000/NU6000DSP, NU4-6000 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com
Feel the box when it's running hard, how much does it move? If it more than a slight vibration, it's not braced enough. I know by your pics, it's not braced enough, mdf in that size panel is not at all stiff. This vibration is robbing output from the port, while creating soundwaves that partly cancel output from the woofer.
Damn that amp is nice..
For now I'm going to do as you said. When I get back in a couple hours I'm going to open up the box and reinforce all the walls with with the slat method going across each wall face. (vs angle braces, though I can do either)
As far as the tune, Peavey recommends their "small vented box" @ 37hz for optimized design. I shall saw the shelf and increase to around there. (unless it's worth keeping it at 34hz?)
Then I'll test and see whether I'm going to start returning things.
For now I'm going to do as you said. When I get back in a couple hours I'm going to open up the box and reinforce all the walls with with the slat method going across each wall face. (vs angle braces, though I can do either)
As far as the tune, Peavey recommends their "small vented box" @ 37hz for optimized design. I shall saw the shelf and increase to around there. (unless it's worth keeping it at 34hz?)
Then I'll test and see whether I'm going to start returning things.
I hear ya, thanks bart. The thing is I would need to reduce by an entire cube to achieve an increase from 33 to 37hz. I don't think I'll be adding that much bracing.
Unless it's not worth messing with the tuning.. yet I probably should follow the Peavey specs.
lol, I didn't calculate it.
Yes, a cu ft would be a whole lot of bracing
Ha yeah. I'm more concerned of such a high tune? 37-40hz seems so opposite of the main theme here. I definitely don't want it to be boomy/raspy, or lose deepness. Yet Peavey and others recommend that I increase the tune..
I'm trying to find standard box tunes for commercial subs, yet not having much luck.
Cut the port shelf, reinforced the walls, lined the box with polyfil. Tune comes in around 38. Sounds loads better than when I first started. Thanks to all that have helped!
I hit the clip lights with even less power now.. not sure if that's good or bad. Anyway only thing I have left to do is dial in the amp vs signal booster. More signal gain less amp gain? More amp gain less signal gain?
Also.. still don't have a crossover... this thing is playing any and all frequencies.. ha. Anyone know of any cheap small standalone units?
I hit the clip lights with even less power now.. not sure if that's good or bad. Anyway only thing I have left to do is dial in the amp vs signal booster. More signal gain less amp gain? More amp gain less signal gain?
Also.. still don't have a crossover... this thing is playing any and all frequencies.. ha. Anyone know of any cheap small standalone units?
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Excellent, I commend you for sticking it out and troubleshooting. What exactly did you do for bracing and what were the effects?
You say you hit the clip lights sooner? Could this be from the polyfill absorbing output? One you get a crossover, you may want to consider taking it out. On the line signal levels, you should try for the largest line level signal you can get without distortion, to counter noise, etc. Maybe 75% of max?
Cheapest crossover is a PLLOX or passive line level crossover, build you own or buy, clean, cheap but not flexible:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/parts/16463-how-do-i-make-diy-fmod.html
Amazon.com: FMOD Crossover Pair 100 Hz Low Pass: Car Electronics
Crossovers
There are numerous pro audio crossovers available, you should be able to get one used for $50-$100, or new for $100 and up. These are typically full analog which may be nice depending on how you feel about digital conversions vs. opamps. It may be tough to meld this with a HT receiver if you wanted to high pass you mains, it's meant to typically be used after a preamp/mixer or something with a master volume control. If there is an in-out pre loop it could work. It will be fine to cross the sub:
Crossover Used at Guitar Center | Search Results
Amazon.com: Behringer CX2310 2-Way Stereo/3-Way Mono Frequency Crossover: Musical Instruments
The best on this context is a minidsp, which offers a 2 way crossover plus PEQ and time correction, and can be set up any way you dream of. Same problem with filtering your mains.
miniDSP 2x4 | miniDSP
miniDSP Balanced 2x4 | miniDSP
Somebody might be aware of other solutions. My preference would be to get a basic rack mount mixer, small pro audio amp, and the minidsp. Mount everything plus your sub amp in a wooden rack/case. Ditch the receiver.
Amp gain down and as high a signal to the amp as possible to lessen induced noise into the patch cord.
Also move the sub... Not just around the floor. Pick it up and see if the sound changes. The port is boundry coupled to the floor extending the LF tuning of the port. Try simply flipping it over.
Just wanted to say thanks to everyone in this forum. You guys rock!
I used 3" slats spaced along each wall. Significantly less rumble on the outside now.
Not sure what would make me clip sooner. I don't think it has anything to do with the polyfil, it's only on the walls, and if anything just fools for a greater box size. With the same signal gain as before, I turn the amp gain up and it clips at less power than before.
a. it's getting just as loud as before, at less power, clipping sooner. more efficient or
b. it now can't accept as much power as before, I created a negative effect
Either way it's not that critical.
(with all times, if I turn the signal gain up, it clips at less and less amp gain)
Now the sub is rated at 800rms, this amp bridged outputs 1000rms (others claim 1300?) so that might explain the clipping..?
It has been set at 30hz. Low power is a relative term, if I have the signal gain set to default, I can crank the amp all the way to max with barely any clipping. So it depends the level I set between them.
I used 3" slats spaced along each wall. Significantly less rumble on the outside now.
Not sure what would make me clip sooner. I don't think it has anything to do with the polyfil, it's only on the walls, and if anything just fools for a greater box size. With the same signal gain as before, I turn the amp gain up and it clips at less power than before.
a. it's getting just as loud as before, at less power, clipping sooner. more efficient or
b. it now can't accept as much power as before, I created a negative effect
Either way it's not that critical.
(with all times, if I turn the signal gain up, it clips at less and less amp gain)
Now the sub is rated at 800rms, this amp bridged outputs 1000rms (others claim 1300?) so that might explain the clipping..?
It has been set at 30hz. Low power is a relative term, if I have the signal gain set to default, I can crank the amp all the way to max with barely any clipping. So it depends the level I set between them.
75% on the signal boost is a nice output. Yet that puts the amp gain at a little over half before clipping. I shall try flipping it over, ha.
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Clipping (or clip LED illumination) is an indication that the amplifier is putting out the maximum undistorted voltage (power) it is capable of. The amp can't "clip at less power than before".
An amp gain of "half" would only be -3 dB, you are probably not looking at what the control setting is when you say "half".
Input gain controls are set in dB. DB SPL is what we hear.
A doubling of power takes only 3 dB gain, while it takes 10 dB of gain (10 times the power) to sound twice as loud at 1K, but only 5 dB difference at 20 Hz to sound twice as loud.
Learning about "gain structure" and "equal loudness curves" might help you understand what you are experiencing.
Art
Maybe it was an illusion that it was clipping at less than before, I must have touched the signal booster somewhere in between.
Nonetheless when I say half, I mean half, yet there's also another gain in the mix. The default on the booster is 50%, at that I can turn the amp gain almost to max, with the clip leds occasionally flickering at max level. It's not hitting well enough though, now if I turn the booster to 75%, the clip leds illuminate a little past half gain on the amp.
I shall definitely research gain structure and loudness curve so I can understand this. The sweet spot sound wise is when the clip leds just start to flicker, but then I'm at the limit and can't increase anymore... unless it's just too much power to the driver between the amp/booster? All in all it's fine, the sub sounds great.
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