there is one caveat to remember, the oem version does not come with the input buffer amps. The oem is free to implement their own favorite circuitry. One point of differentiation between different companies marketing the ncore technology.
My thoughts? Bruno being Bruno designed a great input buffer to go on the DIY ncore units.
Alan
My thoughts? Bruno being Bruno designed a great input buffer to go on the DIY ncore units.
Alan
Hi
Not sure this is the appropriate thread, but would hypex envision a transconductance/current driver amplifier in any near future?
Not sure this is the appropriate thread, but would hypex envision a transconductance/current driver amplifier in any near future?
Yes, Bruno explained his reasoning for the ncore400 very clearly. Hypex owe *no one* any further statement on the availability of DIY ncore modules, IMO.
400 watts @ 4 Ohms @ 1% distortion is enough for most audiophile systems, though in some installations 1000 W/ch would be ideal. It's not just specsmanship, but rather the improvement in driver technology. If you use passive ATCs or B&Ws or Maggies in a big room you might want to "go big" at times, and those drivers can handle 500-1000W for very short periods. Anyway, I think that Mola Mola might do well but has the intent of a provocation to the rest of the industry to buy more Hypex parts or, literally, face the music. When the Mola^2s face off against the big Halcros and MBLs and Krells, et al, there shall be wailing and the gnashing of teeth. The less-pricey makes who now wait in the wings for the rapture (on the amp front anyway) of "built from pure Hypex" will be well-positioned for success.
I hope Yves Smolders chimes in on his system (B&W 802 Diamond + UcD400s) again, because he has exactly the system I've dreamed of since the UcDs got noticed. I hope my earlier post was taken with the irony I intended 😱 .
I am also disturbed by but sympathetic to Goophy's plight. I don't know if your gear is still on the market, but I would have urged you to try a tubed unit upstream of your ncore amps. A tubed DAC or preamp can add some nice, softening, honey masking to those nasty old CDs. Bruno (probably still) has a switchable notch filter at ~18kHz in his home system to quell the aliasing nasties that plague so many older 44.1K recordings.
Oh, the great thing for a big part of the audiophile builders industry on the Mola Molas is the price: at 10k euros per amp pair and proportional prices for the DAC and preamp, they are meant to savage the very high end, not the (relatively) affordable sector. I must say that their stated power amp specs look partly incorrect, though, when compared with the graphs of the ncore1200 performance. Specifically the 0.003% IMD+THD "at all power levels" and a -128dB figure somewhere. Anyway, they should eventually provide a huge marketing incentive to companies like maybe Arcam or Parasound(?) to go with Hypex.
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Correction
Correction:
I said, "I must say that their stated power amp specs look partly incorrect, though, when compared with the graphs of the ncore1200 performance. Specifically the 0.003% IMD+THD "at all power levels" and a -128dB figure somewhere."
The 128dB S/N figure looks correct, my mistake. The 0.003% distortion figure is correct at around 300 watts, not 400, unless the ncore1200 performance has changed. In any case this is magnificent performance!
Correction:
I said, "I must say that their stated power amp specs look partly incorrect, though, when compared with the graphs of the ncore1200 performance. Specifically the 0.003% IMD+THD "at all power levels" and a -128dB figure somewhere."
The 128dB S/N figure looks correct, my mistake. The 0.003% distortion figure is correct at around 300 watts, not 400, unless the ncore1200 performance has changed. In any case this is magnificent performance!
I think it will be a while before the audio community fully realizes what just happened. The amp community right now is like the people playing football with the iceblocks that just landed on the Titanic's deck.
When you consider the price, the size, the efficiency, no need for power conditioning, and the reported, towering performance beyond amps costing as much as a sports coupe, it's a threat on many levels. And they can even be bridged.
I hope Bruno is as generous in the future with diy dacs, etc, of the same caliber.
When you consider the price, the size, the efficiency, no need for power conditioning, and the reported, towering performance beyond amps costing as much as a sports coupe, it's a threat on many levels. And they can even be bridged.
I hope Bruno is as generous in the future with diy dacs, etc, of the same caliber.
Just went to an AES presentation yesterday by Bruno on the ncore technology. I thought I knew a thing or two about analog design, but suffice it to say that I learned another couple of tricks.
When reviewing the measurements on the 1200 I can confirm the fantastic specs like the mentioned 0.003% at all powers and all frequencies.
Can you believe an output impedance of around 1milliohms, and that from DC to above 20kHz??
What jumps out immediately is that this amp doesn't have the rise in THD, rise in Zout and fall in PSRR that a 'regular' amp would show above a few kHz at best. In this amp, all these specs are flat to above 20kHz, which is a result from having an open loop gain that also extends above 20kHz.
There are more paradigm shifts: the 5kHz THD is LOWER than the 1kHz THD, for instance. Which is great as it does lower the higher harmonics even further.
Bruno confidently maintains that this kind of performance is not offered by ANY amp on the market today, not even class A.
But, the proof is in the eating of course so the 2nd part of the presentation was a listening test with Bruno's LS1 active speakers driven by ncore modules. Not a scientifically controlled listening test, but most of those present make their living by listening and judging music and they were impressed, as was I. Some people said they recognised the acoustics of the studio where some of the tracks were produced...
jan didden
When reviewing the measurements on the 1200 I can confirm the fantastic specs like the mentioned 0.003% at all powers and all frequencies.
Can you believe an output impedance of around 1milliohms, and that from DC to above 20kHz??
What jumps out immediately is that this amp doesn't have the rise in THD, rise in Zout and fall in PSRR that a 'regular' amp would show above a few kHz at best. In this amp, all these specs are flat to above 20kHz, which is a result from having an open loop gain that also extends above 20kHz.
There are more paradigm shifts: the 5kHz THD is LOWER than the 1kHz THD, for instance. Which is great as it does lower the higher harmonics even further.
Bruno confidently maintains that this kind of performance is not offered by ANY amp on the market today, not even class A.
But, the proof is in the eating of course so the 2nd part of the presentation was a listening test with Bruno's LS1 active speakers driven by ncore modules. Not a scientifically controlled listening test, but most of those present make their living by listening and judging music and they were impressed, as was I. Some people said they recognised the acoustics of the studio where some of the tracks were produced...
jan didden
OK, Chiming in 🙂
802 Diamonds are driven pretty well by UCD400HG. I took a dual mono, 2x SMPS400 + 2xUCD400HG+HxR to the dealer to listen to them before I bought. Dealer didn't have a balanced pre-amp at hand, so we connected my amp straight to the variable XLR out from an accuphase CD player (don't remember which one)
My comparisons were with a Devialet hybrid class A/D Amp, a 10.000 euro beast which is well reviewed everywhere.
Now the UCD... Power enough for any transients, dynamics were exemplary. Soundstage was a little less enveloping than with the Devialet (mind you, no ABX tests, no volume matching...) - all in all it sounded a little less "real", although the dealer was raising an eyebrow... He went to the CD player and raised the volume extremely, pointing up his finger (probably thinking to compress/clip the audio and start a talk about power reserves of an amplifier) but then just turned it back down again 😀 - Can't fault the UCD's when it comes to power. Yes, they are current limited, but it didn't come into play with the 802 Diamonds, ever.
So all in all, there is a bit of room for improvement - if I ever get my hands on nCore's, The devialet is the machine I'll use as a reference.
802 Diamonds are driven pretty well by UCD400HG. I took a dual mono, 2x SMPS400 + 2xUCD400HG+HxR to the dealer to listen to them before I bought. Dealer didn't have a balanced pre-amp at hand, so we connected my amp straight to the variable XLR out from an accuphase CD player (don't remember which one)
My comparisons were with a Devialet hybrid class A/D Amp, a 10.000 euro beast which is well reviewed everywhere.
Now the UCD... Power enough for any transients, dynamics were exemplary. Soundstage was a little less enveloping than with the Devialet (mind you, no ABX tests, no volume matching...) - all in all it sounded a little less "real", although the dealer was raising an eyebrow... He went to the CD player and raised the volume extremely, pointing up his finger (probably thinking to compress/clip the audio and start a talk about power reserves of an amplifier) but then just turned it back down again 😀 - Can't fault the UCD's when it comes to power. Yes, they are current limited, but it didn't come into play with the 802 Diamonds, ever.
So all in all, there is a bit of room for improvement - if I ever get my hands on nCore's, The devialet is the machine I'll use as a reference.
Would be interesting to hear a good comparison between Devialet and Ncore. I believe Devialet has pre-outs, so one can use it as preamp and DAC.
6moons heard both. Their verdict can be read between the lines. I'm sure Erland would be able to propose an improved power supply for the Devialet though.
That's a good idea.
I was pretty set on not using a preamplifier, just running the signal straight from the DAC, but it would be fun to try something different.
I'm trying to get a hold of an Eastern Electric Minimax pre. Will be interesting to see how much difference that will make.
Haha 😀 I know it is ugly but it is not as bad as you think !
A guy who heard the NCore I made talked with you in Munich. Told you we are going to compare with your switch supply !
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Hi Bruno,
Any plan for a current-drive (high output impedance) version of the ncore in the future?
Thanks for that clear response.
Too bad, current drive can really lower driver's measured distortion (up to 20dB of 3rd distortion reduction in midband in my measurement with my TAD woofers), when properly EQed, and preferably used above resonance (read DIY speakers...).
Distortion at the output of the amp is not really meaningful if you get 100(0) times the distortion from the driver itself.
That will not stop me from buying some ncores to drive those of my drivers that do not benefit from current drive (and maybe even buy some more for other drivers and put a resistors inline 😀 ).
Too bad, current drive can really lower driver's measured distortion (up to 20dB of 3rd distortion reduction in midband in my measurement with my TAD woofers), when properly EQed, and preferably used above resonance (read DIY speakers...).
Distortion at the output of the amp is not really meaningful if you get 100(0) times the distortion from the driver itself.
That will not stop me from buying some ncores to drive those of my drivers that do not benefit from current drive (and maybe even buy some more for other drivers and put a resistors inline 😀 ).
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