Good one, Andre. I had a similar problem with an IC, the OPA1611. It made cymbals sound like glass breaking, yet the AD797 sounds less objectionable in the same location. And don't think that I didn't want to use the OPA in the circuit, it is a lot cheaper, newer in introduction, and I could rub somebody's nose into it, if I had been successful in the swap.
Last edited:
Once again, if you can hear the difference it would show up as a difference in a measurement. There isnt anything audible that can not be measured.
I think you guys get that mixed up with thinking about how to look at and decipher measurements.
You should be asking what measurement would that that difference be found in......you do not remotely control any listening tests so what you are explaining could be many things. That is what happens when something isnt controlled.
Produce the controlled listening test with measurements then you will have a valid opinion about ICs altering sound in a "night and day" way.
Tinitus, it's a hard thing to describe with out visuals. I dug up an old book mark to help you visualize it. Image this, only over a 3D space. This will give you a better idea of node and antinode relations. The places where the sand moves to represent where waves come together to create a null. You might have a null at 1400hz at your listening position, but moving over an inch could fix that null only to give you one at a different frequency.
YouTube - Sound Waves
YouTube - Sound Waves
Show us the LCR values of each cable.
Besides that, Its your brain screwing with you as usual. You probably didnt stand in the exact same place during listening (I mean within 1") For a person with 20 years of experience in selling HiFi gear I would think you know why controlled listening tests are important.
You'll have to clarify what this means. Was the cable tested and what were the measurements?
This should be really simple, but to make it even easier see if you can identify the difference using a single speaker. If you can we can record the results and compare them.
Last edited:
Please post a picture of your headclamp when you do your dbt's.When you actually try to listen closely, you will realise that moving your head 1" will only be perceived as a small movement of the soundstage. It is thus not as critical as your measurements would suggest and quite easy to find the same spot again.
This is not the case, even 1" can dramatically change the perceived response. It all depends on the structure of the room nodes. You could be 1" away from a huge gap in response.
When you actually try to listen closely, you will realise that moving your head 1" will only be perceived as a small movement of the soundstage. It is thus not as critical as your measurements would suggest and quite easy to find the same spot again.
Kareface, I realize that something must change to hear a difference that is real, but HOW do we measure it? You haven't (apparently) gotten as far as cabinet resonances, yet you tell us that measurements are wonderful and will tell us 'everything' we need to know to understand what differences we are hearing?
Point out something that can't be measured?
The physical differences between my hearing as compared to everyone else on this website.
Explain how to boil that one down to a common denomiator when measuring a cable. Some things are not practical enough to measure and even if they were it would only provide information on the test subjects and the cables used for the testing.
It will never prove any blanket statements pertaining to cables and how they sound or don't sound.
The physical differences between my hearing as compared to everyone else on this website.
Explain how to boil that one down to a common denomiator when measuring a cable. Some things are not practical enough to measure and even if they were it would only provide information on the test subjects and the cables used for the testing.
It will never prove any blanket statements pertaining to cables and how they sound or don't sound.
No it was a test lead on some expensive test equipment. Looks like silver in a coax configuration.
Not sure how you will be able to hear soundstage on a single speaker.
Is this the second time you'd made the erroneous assumption that I haven't measured my speakers? You really do seem to enjoy the propagation of misinformation. Once again you attempt to obfuscate, I know you don't have anything better to say, but I get the feeling you didn't hear the other portion of the proverb.
Ok, let's assume that I didn't just tell you twice that I've already measured the speakers. Let's pretend I didn't measure this pair, or that I've never owned speakers before this pair, or that I've never measured other peoples speakers or that I build and calibrate sound rooms for money. Now that we've set that all aside, even if none of that was true it wouldn't change the fact that anything audible is measurable given the proper equipment and understanding. Are you going to once again point out something completely unrelated to the subject at hand only to sneak in a non-sequitur in the hopes that somehow what I had for breakfast makes you less wrong?
Point out something that can't be measured?
The physical differences between my hearing as compared to everyone else on this website.
Explain how to boil that one down to a common denomiator when measuring a cable. Some things are not practical enough to measure and even if they were it would only provide information on the test subjects and the cables used for the testing.
It will never prove any blanket statements pertaining to cables and how they sound or don't sound.
BTW: If I took two identical paintings and changed a small detail on one of them, whould the difference be easier to detect with the two paintings flashed back and forth in front of your face? Or would it be easier if I put both of them on the wall and told you to live with them for a few weeks? Why do people assume subtle differences can be noticed and described in one afternoon? I say at best you may be able to detect a difference but you would not be able to describe exactly what the differences are. If you can't do it with a painting then how would you do it with something constantly changing like music does?
The physical differences between my hearing as compared to everyone else on this website.
Explain how to boil that one down to a common denomiator when measuring a cable. Some things are not practical enough to measure and even if they were it would only provide information on the test subjects and the cables used for the testing.
It will never prove any blanket statements pertaining to cables and how they sound or don't sound.
BTW: If I took two identical paintings and changed a small detail on one of them, whould the difference be easier to detect with the two paintings flashed back and forth in front of your face? Or would it be easier if I put both of them on the wall and told you to live with them for a few weeks? Why do people assume subtle differences can be noticed and described in one afternoon? I say at best you may be able to detect a difference but you would not be able to describe exactly what the differences are. If you can't do it with a painting then how would you do it with something constantly changing like music does?
There are only 2 possible changes, timing between the 2 speakers and the frequencies produced. If the timing is the issue, you'll need need to use a computer to start and stop the playing and the recording of the channels independently. The recordings have to be done at listening position, and you have to make sure that you do them consecutively. You want to make sure the temperature and humidity are about the same between both recordings. If the change in signal is occurring at the IC's you could just pipe that directly into the computer and compare at the signal level first. Do you know the voltage level of your preouts? However, if it's just a difference in the sound and not the timing then you should be able to identify the problem by listening to a single speaker.
If it was usable up in the GHz range, it's quite obviously some kind of quality coaxial cable - which we all know is totally useless as IC's..... no?
WAAY to cheap - even for high quality coax...
Yes, ears defy physics by being able to perceive sounds as if they were in a totally different physical space. You're still running into the nulls and it'll still change your perception of the reproduction. Just because you have 2 ears doesn't mean you can move your head and hear identical results. This comment is simply moronic.
Yes and no - depends on what "one take" means. We percieve the sound of the room as temproal and directional arrivals of impulses. A single mic cannot sort out the two things, but a four microphone array can. So the answer is yes with four mics, no with one mic.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.