And unfortunately, there's a strong tendency to use bad analogies and draw incorrect conclusions from them. The wine tests in question had to do with preference rankings, not the ability to distinguish A from B. These are VERY different sorts of hypotheses to be tested, and the test methods are likewise very different. In wine evaluation, where one wants to understand if A is different than B (for example, seeing if changing the color of a cork changes the wine), the triangle method is nearly universal. And gives reliable, repeatable results.
Until A can shown to be distinguishable from B, it's an exercise in folly to try to rank A and B according to preference.
Not for you I think. I thought you were just making no ** cables that were value for money. Something well made that works as well as anything else but without an excessive mark up, stick with that idea. Not all people can or want to make up their own cables. You sound genuine, you can't promote or sell something you don't understand and still be genuine. Just my thoughts. cheers
Not me, people I know. I am old enough not to get sucked in by silly claims from audio salesmen. Although in the (deep dark) past I was silly enough to purchase the 'green pen on the rim of the CD' fraud. But I've never fallen for the power cord trick or the isolation shelf for CDs etc, even though many an audio store has said they are 'proven' to make an audible difference.
The stores I'm talking about are indeed specialist, reputable audio stores, not selling mass amounts of product, and they certainly push cables and other dubious items: I can only think that the margin on that stuff must be fantastic.
didn't say any such thing
Nasa tweaks, got a refernce?... thought not.. never mentioned "gas tite(sic) connections"...
l8tr
Nasa tweaks, got a refernce?... thought not.. never mentioned "gas tite(sic) connections"...
l8tr
If memory serves, Tweek was just repackaged Stabilant, with a hefty markup. Not developed at NASA nor under NASA contract. It's possible that Stabilant was approved for use in NASA electronics, but I really don't know if that's the case.
What about the power crystals that I've had to apply to all my interconnects with scotch-tape? Cable companies should start including those from the factory. After I told my friends about the power crystals, the difference was HUGE.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Lmao!!
Grew up in Ontario. Worked in IT for JM Schneiders and I have the great joy of going to Winnipeg every year in the dead of winter 😱
First time there, I forgot to plug my car in overnight!!
Thanks for posting that, Jakob. I thought no one was interested!
SY. Yes it is a preference test and that is different. But the study does poke some serious holes in preference testing - and make me suspicious of all wine tasting. I'd like to see some serious peer reviewed work on tasting A/B differences. We've heard the tales, they've made it into popular culture, but are they true? (A lot of the tales are for identification, not A/B difference).
The whole wine rating and award thing always bugged me. It never seemed to match with what I tasted. Now I know why - It's not just me, it's the critics, too! How does this translate into audio testing and reviewing? I don't know. But it does make me suspicious.
As well you should be. My view from the inside cured me very quickly of any regard for most prominent reviewers. There are a few smart, trustworthy, and scrupulous ones, but very few.
Analytical tasting is different. And there's lots of great peer reviewed stuff out of Davis, Geisenheim, and AWRI. The academics set the standard for scrupulous industry people.
OK, back on topic, sorry.
But first, let us talk about 'Tweek'. Tweek is one form of Stabilant 22, a polycrystaline grease, (with advantages) made for various organizations, including the Canadian telephone company, back at least 30 years ago, when contacts needed protection from the air. In many cases it works to keep dissimilar metal contacts, non gold plated, from oxidizing, etc. Dennison originally learned about the stuff, gave me a bottle in 1981, then showed it to Sumiko (a marketing organization) and they took the stuff and ran with it, as Tweek I prefer Cramolin, myself, especially the original form, from Germany, which in BLUE form does much the same thing.
Back when tin solder and gold connectors were often used, Tweek could be a wonderful preventative of computer failure, for example. I wish that I could have used it with my Apple II computer from beginning.
Back when tin solder and gold connectors were often used, Tweek could be a wonderful preventative of computer failure, for example. I wish that I could have used it with my Apple II computer from beginning.
Reminds me of the LED video walls I used to run. 100s of circuit boards, 1000s of connections. And often sitting but a few meters from the vast pacific ocean. Always trouble.
The only thing that kept them going was DeoxIT. We bought it by the case, literally.
The only thing that kept them going was DeoxIT. We bought it by the case, literally.
Some of the arguing posts are gone, others I've edited; something I hate to do.
I just looked and this thread is about cables. Can we agree?
/Hugo
I just looked and this thread is about cables. Can we agree?
/Hugo
I'm pleased to see that the pro-cable-sound posters aren't having their way in this thread like they were a month or two back.
The latest thing I saw today was a press release for 'audiophile' USB cables for your outboard DAC. I think it was on the ironically titled AVguide.com website. It was a bit of a shock and reminded me how newcomers to audio really need a bit of guidance from old hands who are healthily skeptical, before the 'I can hear oxygen' cable swappers get to them, and before they make the big mistake of opening a hifi magazine expecting to read the truth.
The latest thing I saw today was a press release for 'audiophile' USB cables for your outboard DAC. I think it was on the ironically titled AVguide.com website. It was a bit of a shock and reminded me how newcomers to audio really need a bit of guidance from old hands who are healthily skeptical, before the 'I can hear oxygen' cable swappers get to them, and before they make the big mistake of opening a hifi magazine expecting to read the truth.
I hope they're gathering evidence to prove their assertions. All it takes is some listening tests without peeking. I've given several people test protocols, so if people are open-minded enough to actually challenge their own beliefs, there will be some reports of controlled subjective tests.
Member
Joined 2002
Does anyone with technical chops want to comment on the audio X press article in the November issue, about.......DISTORTION METER.... measuring the differences in cable behavior? I am intrigued by what Ed Simon shows concerning both cable and connector differences.
Bud
Bud
they measured directionality in digital cables at stereophile many years ago so this is no new news. it simply boils down to the question if it is audible and when how much does it count. i think with the right equipment you can measure anything down to the plank length and plank time. god is in the details but most people simply do not care about small differences.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.