I am starting to use WINISD beta and have a few questions that hopefully someone will have the answers.
1-WINISD automatically picks a box size and tuning frequency, I would like to assume this is the optimum cabinet for the driver without trying to get some lower extension. Is this true if I don't operate the driver below the frequency where the frequency response/spl line starts dropping below the 0db line?
2-If I increase the box volume and lower the tuning frequency to get lower frequency extension, but still keep the response line on 0db, will this degrade the sound quality in the upper frequencies?
I am trying to get the maximum output out of 15" drivers operating them between 65 and 175 hz. there will be 18" drivers operating from 65 hz down and 8" driver operating from 175 hz up to where they will x-over to a horn. This is for a pro-sound 5-way speaker system and each 18' & 15" driver will be powered with 2000 watts.
Any input would be deeply appreciated.
Thanks, Kerry kerrystansbury@yahoo.com
1-WINISD automatically picks a box size and tuning frequency, I would like to assume this is the optimum cabinet for the driver without trying to get some lower extension. Is this true if I don't operate the driver below the frequency where the frequency response/spl line starts dropping below the 0db line?
2-If I increase the box volume and lower the tuning frequency to get lower frequency extension, but still keep the response line on 0db, will this degrade the sound quality in the upper frequencies?
I am trying to get the maximum output out of 15" drivers operating them between 65 and 175 hz. there will be 18" drivers operating from 65 hz down and 8" driver operating from 175 hz up to where they will x-over to a horn. This is for a pro-sound 5-way speaker system and each 18' & 15" driver will be powered with 2000 watts.
Any input would be deeply appreciated.
Thanks, Kerry kerrystansbury@yahoo.com
you can pick different tunings.
As far as I know, any of the highlighted tunings are available.
eg, open WinISD, pick your driver (or input your parameters)..then it comes up with SBB4 or similar in available alignments. scroll with your mouse with it highlighted, pick an alignment, click and away ya go.
It's that easy..
now Cal Weldon on these pages is a sound reinforcement kinda guy and may be a really good resource to hunt down..
As far as I know, any of the highlighted tunings are available.
eg, open WinISD, pick your driver (or input your parameters)..then it comes up with SBB4 or similar in available alignments. scroll with your mouse with it highlighted, pick an alignment, click and away ya go.
It's that easy..
now Cal Weldon on these pages is a sound reinforcement kinda guy and may be a really good resource to hunt down..
well, need more info to provide any 'concrete" help.
WinISD doesn't automatically pick the alignment, you do. You have the choice to select any of the highlighted alignments (SBB4 typically gives you the best low bass output if a ported enclosure--well best impulse response). If you don't pick the alignment, it picks the first one in alphabetical order that will work.
This seems pretty much the same "project" that's elsewhere on this forum. Look for "need help wiring 1500 watt speakers".you don't indicate how many drivers, how many enclosures, etc, just that this is a "pro" situation. simiilar thread
Like I previously stated, perhaps Mr. Weldon could help you out as this is an area he often operates in. If you don't understand Loudspeaker design and the parameters of a loudspeaker, I'd search out a good project on the net. All the design work has been done.
and as stated on the other thread, more information really is required to help out.
WinISD doesn't automatically pick the alignment, you do. You have the choice to select any of the highlighted alignments (SBB4 typically gives you the best low bass output if a ported enclosure--well best impulse response). If you don't pick the alignment, it picks the first one in alphabetical order that will work.
This seems pretty much the same "project" that's elsewhere on this forum. Look for "need help wiring 1500 watt speakers".you don't indicate how many drivers, how many enclosures, etc, just that this is a "pro" situation. simiilar thread
Like I previously stated, perhaps Mr. Weldon could help you out as this is an area he often operates in. If you don't understand Loudspeaker design and the parameters of a loudspeaker, I'd search out a good project on the net. All the design work has been done.
and as stated on the other thread, more information really is required to help out.
kerrystansbury,
Yes WinISD beta will actually give you the "optimum" enclosure for the driver to give you the smoothest frequency responce, with the smalled dip. You can easily change parameters around to get lower bass extension, but will often run into increasing the size of the dip in the responce after your fb.
I believe Nanook is confusing WinISD Alfa and Beta.
Josh
Yes WinISD beta will actually give you the "optimum" enclosure for the driver to give you the smoothest frequency responce, with the smalled dip. You can easily change parameters around to get lower bass extension, but will often run into increasing the size of the dip in the responce after your fb.
I believe Nanook is confusing WinISD Alfa and Beta.
Josh
If you go with WinISD alpha you can add filters to the response to simulate crossover interaction with the driver. Then look at the excursion profile, increase the signal until you get to xmax. Flip over to SPL and you now know what you can do.
Increasing the box size beyond a certain point hurts power handling as the cone is no longer loaded by the box sufficiently to prevent over excursion. Exceeding xmax will affect the clarity of the upper range, as the distortion products will be there. Again, in WinISD alpha you can see the effect of box size on power handling. You may be able to do this in beta, I don't know.
Too big a box will also cause the driver to roll off prematurely - you may find you get flatter extension to a crossover point with a smaller box.
Increasing the box size beyond a certain point hurts power handling as the cone is no longer loaded by the box sufficiently to prevent over excursion. Exceeding xmax will affect the clarity of the upper range, as the distortion products will be there. Again, in WinISD alpha you can see the effect of box size on power handling. You may be able to do this in beta, I don't know.
Too big a box will also cause the driver to roll off prematurely - you may find you get flatter extension to a crossover point with a smaller box.
I just finished trying WINISD alpha. It has a couple handy features, but other than an excursion calculator and filter input, I think it's a user-unfriendly piece of crap. If you are trying several drivers all at the same time and click on the wrong place they all disappear and after that you can only get one drivers info on the screen at a time! It also will not even except the T/S parameters for my 18 Sound 18LW1400 18" drivers. I triple checked everything and I made no mistakes. I will keep working with it but so far I like the "Beta" better. The system I am putting together is just trying to perfect my present DJ system. I am going to change my 15" drivers because my eminence "Omega Pro 15"s can't keep up with the rest. I am building new cabinets and want them to be perfect for my application. Each side or channel of the stereo system will include 2 x "18 sound" 18LW1400 or 2 x JBL 2242 18" drivers powered by a bridged Yorkville AP6020 power amp rated at 4000 watts into 4 ohms. 2 x JBL 2226 or better 15" drivers powered by the same, 2 x Beyma 8MI100 8" drivers powered by 1channel of a Yorkville AP4040 power amp rated at 1200 watts per channel into 4 ohms. 1 x Radian 850PB 2" horn driver mounted on a "DDS" CFD 2-90A 90 x 50 degree constant directivity horn lense and 1 x "BMS" 4540nd 1" horn driver mounted on a TBA 90 x 50 degree CD horn lense, these horn drivers are passively crossed over to each other at 7000hz, 12db per octave and powered by the other channel of the yorkville AP4040 power amp. All other crossover point are 24db per octave, 65 hz between the 18's and 15's, 180hz between the 15's and 8's, 1500hz between the 8's and Radian horn. The system already sounds great, but the omega 15's are not efficient enough to keep up with the rest of the system and I have no room to add additional 15's. Hense, my need for the ultimate 15" driver and cabinet combination. As for the link left by "Nanook" I am not a 14 year old building my first set of speakers, Though I was at one time, and didn't really appreciate the "waste of my time" link. Finally, does anyone have the email address for Cal Weldon? Maybe he can assist my effort.
Thanks, Kerry "ROLLING THUNDER" DJ
Thanks, Kerry "ROLLING THUNDER" DJ
As for whether you like using WinISD A, to each his own on. If you follow the procedure in the helpfile for entering driver data and letting the program calculate some data it works well - a difference in the third significant digit will prevent saving.
Cal is a user here. Can't remember if he uses a space in his name or smashed it together like me. Using the search function should turn him up.
Sounds like you have a large truck to move your all of your gear. Hopefully your back is in better shape than mine at the same age.
Paragraphs will make your posts easier to read. As you may have noticed, we don't go for that kind of language here. Junk would have been an acceptable 4 letter word
Cal is a user here. Can't remember if he uses a space in his name or smashed it together like me. Using the search function should turn him up.
Sounds like you have a large truck to move your all of your gear. Hopefully your back is in better shape than mine at the same age.
Paragraphs will make your posts easier to read. As you may have noticed, we don't go for that kind of language here. Junk would have been an acceptable 4 letter word
Thanks for pointing me here Al. I hadn't looked at this thread as I am on a Mac and cant use the WinISD.
Firstly, I am no expert in this field, I am simply an enthusiast. My experience is limited to building a couple of set ups as well as filling in old Altec boxes with new gear. I am just a sucker for that old PA sound.
I have read through the thread and find it quite ambitious but I have some questions.
I was wondering about the 15 and 18 combination. I am wondering why, if you are not happy with the existing 15's, you don't just take four new 18's up to the 8's instead of doing the 60 - 175 Hz thing with new 15's. Or conversly run two of the 18's higher than the others like in a 4.5 way? Say two of them to 60 Hz and the other two up to 175.
What do you think?
Firstly, I am no expert in this field, I am simply an enthusiast. My experience is limited to building a couple of set ups as well as filling in old Altec boxes with new gear. I am just a sucker for that old PA sound.
I have read through the thread and find it quite ambitious but I have some questions.
I was wondering about the 15 and 18 combination. I am wondering why, if you are not happy with the existing 15's, you don't just take four new 18's up to the 8's instead of doing the 60 - 175 Hz thing with new 15's. Or conversly run two of the 18's higher than the others like in a 4.5 way? Say two of them to 60 Hz and the other two up to 175.
What do you think?
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Joined 2002
I do not like the sound of 18's any higher than 65 hz, They just don't pound you in the chest like 15's do. I would try 4 x 12's instead of two 15's, but the cost just gets to be too much.
I used to run 4 x Altec Valencia's with tweeters added and they sounded great, but they can't take the high volume level that I am looking for.
I also plan to make a very small footprint, For smaller gigs I will just use a single 18 and bring it's level up with the crossover level. all the rest of the drivers will all be in one cabinet. The single 18 stack will be only 21 inches wide, 7 feet tall and the depth will be determined by the 15" drivers Vb.
The top "full range" cabinet will be a trapazoid design tapering 10 degrees in toward the back on each side.
The problem with high power/spl drivers is, the more spl they are capable of, the more their usable frequency range is limited.
I used to run 4 x Altec Valencia's with tweeters added and they sounded great, but they can't take the high volume level that I am looking for.
I also plan to make a very small footprint, For smaller gigs I will just use a single 18 and bring it's level up with the crossover level. all the rest of the drivers will all be in one cabinet. The single 18 stack will be only 21 inches wide, 7 feet tall and the depth will be determined by the 15" drivers Vb.
The top "full range" cabinet will be a trapazoid design tapering 10 degrees in toward the back on each side.
The problem with high power/spl drivers is, the more spl they are capable of, the more their usable frequency range is limited.
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