Group Buy Directions
Here at www.diyaudio.com we have a good tradition of organizing group buys. Most of them have been successful but a few have not. Below follows good experience collected by peranders.
Group buys are rather common at www.diyaudio.com and we have seen it in other forum too.
The reasons for this may be:
- A single person wants to finance a personal project with professional made pcb's
- A couple or many people want to buy a cheap but good pcb of some good design
- A couple or many people want to buy parts that may be hard to get in small quantites
It could be more reasons but these are the major ones.
Money investment *), how much?
Make sure you don't loose money. See below also.
It's rather easy to mess things up which also has happen therefore I have written down a check list.
| 1 | The organizer MUST submit, address and telephone number. It's not necessary to do it in public but at least one of the customers must have it, preferable more than one. Why? The organizer can be ill or unreachable in some other way. This is only a safety measure for the customers. |
| 2 | Gather all wishes and then design the pcb. *) One man is in charge, YOU or someone is in charge of the business and one another is in charge of the design. Make it clear from the beginning who runs the show and the responsibilities of each person. |
| 3 | Build one or more prototypes. Bug hunt, add features maybe. It's very important to have a ready and functional product to offer. DON'T OFFER NON-EXISTENT PRODUCTS. Even if you are a pro and is really skilled things can turn up and make the design not so good. Prototype first! Seeing is believing in this case. |
| 4 | Start a wiki page and write down your offer which of course must be attractive. Be clear with what you really are offering. |
| 5 | Make people to sign up but at this point not binding. State a last date when 90-95% should have announced their interest. |
| 6 | Get an offer from a pcb manufacture or supplier if it's about other parts. If you should ask for more or less boards than the interest, that's up to you to decide. My experience has been less interest when it comes to put up money but I'll guess this is very dependent of the type of project. |
| 7 | Create a Paypal account so the money collecting will go easier. |
| 8 | Collect the money in advance, my recommendation. Don't risk anything if it is a low profit deal. Note low profit, not non-profit. It's OK to get a small reward for your efforts. State a last date for the payment. When 90-95% have paid it may be time for ordering. |
| 9 | Order the pcb's, parts etc. |
| 10 | State the expected delivery time. |
| 11 | Deliver all by yourself or with help from a couple of people. |
| 12 | Make a clear table (like I did) over payments, dates, amounts, delivery times and maybe also acknowledgements from the "customers". We have seen here that status of payment and delivery is very important. It may also be good if the "customers" also acknowledge the recieved goods. If this "openness" of some reason isn't wanted by the organizers, and want to keep it more hidden, make sure that the customers get informed and also which person they shall get in contact with if they have questions about payment and delivery. |
| 13 | Start a homepage. Gather all info in one place. Make sure this homepage is updated as fast as possible. |
| 14 | Create your own support forum like I have done (costs nothing!) or start a thread at the forum in mind. You may also use my forum for a closed group so the beta builders can exchange info in peace and quiet. It can be more peaceful if the development is a bit protected. |
-
- ) If you aren't sure if you dare to risk a prototype series, collect a gang of beta builders like I did. 3-10 persons is enough. Ask them to put up some money and return some or all of it AFTER completed task. If you know the builders, trust them and know their building speed it's not necessary with this deposition of money but if you don't know them too well I'll recommend this type of "blackmail" (money talks!).
My experience has been that some are really fast and very dedicated and delivers but unfortunately the rest has been 0% delivering. So in my case it would have been a pure waste of money but also in results. Many people say yes without really thinking, do I really have time for this? Can I deliver in time?
So if you plan to use my idea here about beta builders, make sure you calculate a reward also in your pcb price so you won't loose anything.
Regards
Per-Anders Sjöström
copy all below in order to get a new group buy page. The template comes from a Pavel Dudek / Per-Anders Sjöström groupbuy. I'll hope you'll see where I have commented. Please ask me (peranders) if something is unclear.
Group Buy Template
Background
Write a short text about the background for people that may surf into this page.
I have tried to convince Pavel for a long time that his design deserves to be more known. Finally he said yes to this group deal. The design will be intellectual property of Pavel so the gerber files will not be published but all other info. The deal will only take place once so sign up if you want to build his amp.
Pavel has written a manual for this (only for him to translate the BOM at the end, a separate english BOM exists) where he explains the design features which are more than for a common
[Gainclone]. The basic idea is to make a "complete" amplifier meaning that the pcb contains as much as possible and leaves at little as possible to the builder. The advantage of this is obvious. One of the main reasons for troubles is the wiring which Pavel already has done in the board.
The board is very well done (according to I) and I see no mistakes regarding the grounding which is extremely important when the whole power supply is on the board.
The Offer
Write here closed when it is
CLOSED
What we will offer is a pcb in high industrial quality, thick copper etc. Look at the pictures. We will also offer the copper wire the output inductors. Readymade inductor will cost some because this requires rather much work from me. I offer this as a service for those you want help with this.
Specifications for the pcb
Write down facts for the products in mind
| Material | FR4 |
| Thickness | 1.6 mm |
| Thickness copper | 70+25 um (base copper + plating) 70 = 2 oz. |
| Protection pads | SN100C |
| Component print | White, photo resist method |
Who is responsible and for what? Maybe one is responsible for the design and someone else for the purchase
I (Per-Anders Sjöström "peranders") will run the show. I'll take also the support which I can answer for, the rest takes Pavel care of.
Details and Instructions
Links for the project and where to find info
This is be the home of the group buy for the PA03, a LM4780 based amplifier designed by
[Pavel Dudek]
I have created a homepage for this and more text will be added later on.
[PA03 LM4780 homepage]
[The thread about this group buy]
Dates
States dates for each step in the process but state only one date at the time, like last day for signing up, payment etc.
The boards are delivered and the last ones were posted 21th May. Good luck all wishes "peranders".
Payment
Describe how you want to get paid
I'll apprecieate if most people will use Paypal.
For swedish citizens, please use paypal, Nordea personkonto or Plusgiro
If you can't use Paypal for some reason there are other alternatives, please take this in private emails to me.
Shipping
State here which shipping methods you can offer
You can rather safely choose "regular mail" to most places in the world. I have never experienced that anything has got lost but if you'll add 65 SEK you'll have some insurance.
Sign with nick and URL to diyaudio.com
[Per-Anders Sjöström]
The ordering and payment procedure
1 Deside how many boards you'll order. Write it down on the list.
2
[Email me] so I'll get your email address. Please also email me your contact info, address, phone number. Mention also if Paypal NOT is OK.
3 I'll send you a Paypal bill.
4 You'll pay me.
5 I'll make a note on the list that you have paid.
6 I'll send the goods, write it on the list also.
7 You make a note when you have got the pcb's.
The list, binding
Pcb including readymade inductors = 105 SEK
Pcb including only copper wire for the inductors = 85 SEK
Shipping, see table
Registered mail fee 65 SEK
The sums in the price tables (at the bottom of this page) you have to think about are the two right most columns, one for regular mail oand one for registered mail. the shipping rates are only there for info.
Exchange rates as a service
[Exchange rates]
[Calculator]
Start first with this interest list. When all have signed up move each person when he has paid to the list below. Separate between people with interest and really active ones. Experience says that rather many people has a prelimanry interst only.
Interest list
| user | Country | Pcb's | Inductors |
| spind | Canada | 2 | 0 |
| trango | Sweden | 5 | 10 |
| user | Country | Pcb's | Inductors |
| Total | . | 213 | 23 |
Please change the total after signing up.
Interest list
Payments / Shipped
Use this table when you have sent Paypal bills and are getting money. This table is very important in order for the participants to feel secure.
| user | Country | Pcb's | Inductors | Value (Currency) | Bill sent DDMMYY | Paid DDMMYY | Payment ackn. DDMMYY | Ackn. value (currency) | Delivered DDMMYY | Recieved DDMMYY |
| spind | Canada | 2 | 0 | 195 SEK | 050407 | 050407 | 050407 | 195 SEK | 280407 | . |
| trango | Sweden | 5 | 10 | 569 SEK | 090407 | 150407 | 150407 | 569 SEK | 210507 | . |
| user | Country | Pcb's | Inductors | Value (Currency) | Bill sent DDMMYY | Paid DDMMYY | Payment ackn. DDMMYY | Ackn. value (currency) | Delivered DDMMYY | Recieved DDMMYY |
Payments / Shipped
Sweden, all prices in SEK
Substract 20 SEK per board if you want to wind the inductors yourself
| Pcb's | Weight gram | Tariff gram | Shipping SEK | Regular SEK | Registered SEK |
| 1 | 107 | 250 | (11)22 | (116)127 | (166)177 |
| 2 | 214 | 250 | (11)22 | (221)232 | (271)282 |
| 3 | 321 | 500 | (22)33 | (337)348 | (387)398 |
| 4 | 428 | 500 | (22)33 | (442)453 | (492)503 |
| 5 | 535 | 1000 | 44 | 569 | 619 |
| 6 | 642 | 1000 | 44 | 674 | 724 |
| 7 | 749 | 1000 | 44 | 779 | 829 |
| 8 | 856 | 1000 | 44 | 884 | 934 |
| 9 | 963 | 1000 | 44 | 989 | 1039 |
| 10 | 1070 | 2000 | 50 | 1100 | 1150 |
Europe, all prices in SEK
Substract 20 SEK per board if you want to wind the inductors yourself
| Pcb's | Weight gram | Tariff gram | Shipping SEK | Regular SEK | Registered SEK |
| 1 | 107 | 250 | (20)40 | (125)145 | (190)210 |
| 2 | 214 | 250 | (20)40 | (230)250 | (295)315 |
| 3 | 321 | 500 | (40)70 | (355)385 | (420)450 |
| 4 | 428 | 500 | (40)70 | (460)490 | (525)555 |
| 5 | 535 | 1000 | (70)130 | (595)655 | (660)720 |
| 6 | 642 | 1000 | (70)130 | (700)760 | (765)825 |
| 8 | 856 | 1000 | (70)130 | (910)970 | (975)1035 |
The world, all prices in SEK
Substract 20 SEK per board if you want to wind the inductors yourself
| Pcb's | Weight gram | Tariff gram | Shipping SEK | Regular SEK | Registered SEK |
| 1 | 107 | 250 | (25)50 | (130)155 | (195) |
| 2 | 214 | 250 | (25)50 | (235)260 | (300)325 |
| 3 | 321 | 500 | (50)80 | (365)395 | (430)460 |
| 4 | 428 | 500 | (50)80 | (470)500 | (535)565 |
| 5 | 535 | 1000 | (80)160 | (605)685 | (670)750 |
| 6 | 642 | 1000 | (80)160 | (710)790 | (775)855 |
| 8 | 856 | 1000 | (80)160 | (920)1000 | (985)1065 |
